OnlineDomain.com Domain Name News & Opinions
Here is a simple tip: don’t take advice about buying domains from someone posting (on the same page) domains for sale with his affiliate code in the link!
A couple of weeks back I read a summary of a post at domaining.com that worried me. I let it sit for these couple of weeks but I just can not NOT write about this.
In short the post (listing domains in auction with affiliate links) said that domains with no bids are “a numbers play”. Merely selling 1 at $1000 or $2000 and you can pay for all of them. If you sell 2 domains then you have a profit.
The problem is that “Merely” is NOT a business plan. And this is no play time. Someone could easily say: “Buy 10 homes at 100k each. You merely have to sell 5 at 200k and you break even!” But it is NEVER that simple and certainly not an easy thing to do.
Proving a list of domains in auction with affiliate links is one thing. Giving financial advice on top of these domains is another.
Buying the writer’s garbage (because if the domains were so good and cheap he would have bought them and not posted them) and the garbage of another 100+ people (that read the same article and passed) is not going to make you rich.
You are not likely to make a lot of money when you are using someone else’s public domain list. Mainly because the domains that appear on this list will frequently get higher than usual bids but also because the domains you end up buying may not be the kind of domains you know how and where to sell.
Here is a bit of (domain name) math:
Let’s say you spend $1,000 to buy 40 domains with no bids at about $25 each. (I am using Godaddy auctions as an example.) These carry renewals of about $400 per year.
The reality is that it might take you 5 years to sell 2 out of the 40 at $1,500 each. That is about 1% sell through rate on your portfolio and that is IF you domains are actually good (for what you paid that is $25).
Do you know how much money you will make by year 5?
ZERO!
(By the end of year 5 you will have paid for all the 6th year renewals so technically you will have one more year to make a sale.)
Meanwhile everyone else is making or made money: ICANN, registries, registrars and the writer of course.
Sure you can make a $5,000 sale and make some profit. But you can also sell none of the “no bids” domains and lose $3,000.
And a suggestion…
Here is a suggestion people. Stop reading daily expired lists, do some research and start making your own lists. It doesn’t take more than 30-60 minutes per day to create a serious, targeted and unique domain list. This way your margins will be higher and you will be buying domains YOU like and YOU can actually sell.
Stop being a lazy domainer because there is no such thing!
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Domain Shane has been doing this for a while, including
Paid links.
.co .ws investment grade really?
Shame on Shane!
That what I and others have been pointing out…that DShame!!
All the domains he listed are mostly his and his cronies.
All those that called themselves domain investors, domain Pros are all bogus and pimping their own selfish agenda.
Regards,
BullS
MBA from Domain.Academy
MBA- My Big A***ss
whats worse Trump Academy or Domain.Academy
Yes. Domain Shane is a dummy period. I agree with Trevor 100% he tried to pump up .CC not .co
. CC is pure trash. and .ws is worse than .Horse Domain Shane and the Bald Guy from Media Options are in Cahoots on this IMO
Always the best articles comes from Konstantinos
Agreed. This is great advice and new domainers should pay attention as many of those crooks bank on the “People are discovering the namespace(s) after market for the first time, all the time !” factor, like a cycle.. they have affiliate traps/links that cover every single context within that cycle. BS appraisals, Non-Real reports, you name it.
In fact, would it be crazy to state a lot of Domaining websites focus just on that ? Make your own lists !
Great article.
The funniest thing I have seen on one of the list posts was a while ago saying “I spend hours a day to create this list for you guys”. Really? Because in 15 minutes using a tool like Freshdrop or whatever I can create a list that is 10x better.
I Agree, you get the real truth at this blog for sure.
If your doing something shady he calls you on it!
Past few weeks we have seen articles of Berkens using his poor cousin in NYC to register .nyc domains via proxy, to Adam Dickers continued misdealings. Domain Elite be warned.
Great read thank you!
best blogs
domaingang
onlinedomain
domaininvesting
i dont read others..
I am glad someone finally calls out the plant seller on his ‘suggestive sells’…
…. would you like a CHiP with that.. how about a LLNN.com.. have you tried our fresh baked .ws
While it is buyer beware and do your own due diligence on what you buy.. The reality is people follow the plant sellers recommendation and he is also wanting people to following his links to make money.
The only domain blogger who has a need to constantly tell everyone who will listen how well he is doing and how much money he is making.. hmmm Odd
Kosta overall I agree and I think your post makes a lot of sense.
…But in the case of DomainShane, specifically, he’s been doing this for years and years. Often times his domain lists are mixed with great blog posts and if you look through the years of lists there is no way he or anyone could buy all of the great names listed. So if you are playing the long game and trying to pick off great names as they come no name on any given day is going to make or break you. Also by virtue of being on a list means the names are getting decent promotion anyway. I think it’s quite rare for a publicly listed name to fall under the radar.
I’ve bid on names his lists have brought to my attention, he makes a cut for providing that service and saves me some time going through a list I might not otherwise have found. Not sure why commenters are getting so nasty over this…
Bill, I am mostly talking about the financial advice given on top of affiliate links.
Regarding the lists. Just go at godaddy, make a search with your criteria and save it to use daily. 1 minute. Done. Go to namejet and make a search. Done in 2 minutes.
Under the radar is having 1 to 3 or 5 bidders. Such lists guarantee double or triple bidders for the same domain with higher prices.
It’s worth pointing out that Konstantinos didn’t single anybody out for censure in this post. Those of us who’ve been around for awhile can read between the lines; so we guessed that Shane Cultra was the person posting what Konstantinos saw. But that only makes “Domain Shane” the occasion, the jumping off point or prompt for a more general discussion that applies to more people than just Shane.
If we take Konstantinos’s remarks as a condemnation of Cultra, then we’re largely missing the point. There will always be people who make money by convincing others to underestimate risk / difficulty and overestimate reward. And it’s dangerously easy for any domainer to fall into that habit when writing his own sales pitches – not just affiliate bloggers but anybody doing a writeup at NamePros or Flippa or in an email to some potential buyer. We ought to be more skeptical, yes, but also more sympathetic. We can easily make the same mistakes.
With domain investment, the future is murky. When talking to people we hope will pay us, it’s easy to exaggerate resale prospects. Hell, we already overestimate ROI when we persuade ourselves to buy! That’s a big part of the domainer mindset. Some people exploit it unscrupulously. Some get carried away occasionally. Obviously, people have various opinions of where Shane falls along that spectrum.
Nevertheless, Shane Cultra is a colleague. And we ought to try – I think – to treat colleagues as professionally as we can. Over the years, I’ve criticized Shane’s salesmanship – often sharply. But the excesses of a person’s sales pitch are best answered with data and arguments, not personal attacks. Shane and I disagreed about the Chinese surge, for instance. And that was an impersonal argument, ultimately resolved by facts. Plenty of people were wrong. However loud they were, even if some ethical lines were crossed, making money by promoting what turns out to be a mistake isn’t a hangable offense.
It’s odd to find myself defending Shane, since we carried on a real feud. Here’s the thing: For years, Shane and his cronies targeted me with personal attacks and professional sabotage – in public and, even worse, in private. And not just me – other bloggers too. Recently, Shane asked for a ceasefire. That’s an honorable thing for him to do; so I’ll try to honor it. Really, I think it’s worth reminding myself what I objected to in the first place: COLLEAGUES OUGHT TO TREAT ONE ANOTHER WITH RESPECT.
There are cases where that becomes impossible. Adam Dicker, for instance. But nothing Shane has done rises to that level. Now and then, he promotes spending in ways that may result in a loss. So do 10,000+ other domainers. In the past, Shane has stabbed a couple of fellow bloggers in the back. That’s the real problem. Shane got carried away. Let’s not throw him under the bus just yet.
There’s nothing wrong with trying to make a buck with affiliate lists. Maybe relying on such lists is a lazy and inefficient way to go about domaining, but I’m sometimes lazy. Shane’s format, in particular, obliges him to say something about the domains; and, if nothing particularly springs to mind, then boosting the resale prospects for a cheap domain is 1 way to fill space when the blogger is in a hurry. We can be forgiving AND cautious about such things.
Really, guys, we’re too quick to demonize people. Especially in this disgusting 2016 U.S. election campaign. Domaining suffers from a lack of professionalism. Domainers work mainly alone, not on teams. All of us need to try to improve this domainer culture, to make it more collegial; or else mainstream society will continue to view domainers in a bad light.
YOU ARE ALWAYS SUCKING UP to the plant seller, bald media options guy and every other BS domainer on domaining.com you always have something to say with your PEDO looking picture. get lost !!!
@Brandon Sagnon,
Is that referring to me or someone else?
People have short memories. I literally laughed out loud when Brandon Sagnon wrote that I’m “always sucking up” to Shane Cultra, Andrew Rosener, and others.
Over the past few years, I’ve been so outspoken as a critic of hype that you couldn’t have picked ANYBODY in the domain industry those people hate more than me. When they hear that some idiot thinks I kiss up to them, they’ll be in stitches!
Just for starters, here’s some of what I’ve said publicly about Shane Cultra:
“Domain Shane takes his job as sycophantic thug seriously. I swear that guy spends half his day looking for the next kissable ass; then he spends the other half throwing pebbles at anybody who says his master’s ass has a mole.”
Is that me being a fanboy to ““that gutless, mean-spirited, money-grubbing Shane Cultra”? This is a matter of record, folks.
In private, Shane called me a conspiracy theorist after I wrote a DNW article about shill bidding on Flippa. He deleted all my posts on his blog after I cited the correct the population of China with a Wikipedia link. And he wrote to Andrew Allemann and Elliot Silver lying – yes lying – about how he feared for his family’s safety because I’m oh so threatening. Quote: “I am afraid what you are going to do my reputation, myself and my family.”
Andrew Rosener – whom Sagnon calls that “bald media options guy” – got into public arguments with me repeatedly because I warned people about a Chinese bubble back in 2015. Most domainers who were trying to sell that inventory did their utmost to discredit me, in fact.
When Shane tried to hype .WS, I did perhaps more than anybody to stop that initiative in its tracks. And Drew felt so persecuted by me that he went off in a crazy tirade. The CEO of Media Options had this to say about me:
“I’ll knock your fucking teeth through back of your head”
and
“NEWSFLASH: You don’t fucking matter – your voice is like a fart in the wind…”
and
“Your bias bullshit is likely causing harm to the parties that don’t know better than to ignore the diarrhea that comes out of your mouth”
If I was trying to curry favor with Rosener, then you must admit I didn’t do it very well! I’ve even been harshly critical of more beloved figures like Michael Cyger of DomainSherpa. When he launched his new paid course, I wrote:
“Mike, in many ways I like you. But you’re the same curator, the same flawed judge of trustworthy experts, and the same overweening protector of guests and advertisers now as before. It’s only sensible that we react with trepidation.”
The irony of saying that I (of all people) kiss up to these very people is unbelievably funny.
NOTE: I haven’t retracted anything I’ve written on these matters. And I’ve written extensively.
Having read all of the above and a lot more, I must admit it was kind of funny what Brandon said.
Maybe he thought you were someone else?
Joseph – Point taken….You mention, “All of us need to try to improve this domainer culture, to make it more collegial”.
If we are to improve the “domainer culture” we need to recognize and hold those responsible that are doing the most harm and damage. You seem to be quick to forgive Shane when he consistently attacks and bullies many people. He has also been fraudulent by pumping up his cohorts domains while pumping extensions with no value. In that sense he is no different than a stock broker selling equity’s with no value. In addition to causing harm to the domain industry, I encourage you to listen to the DomainSherpa interview I mentioned above. His behavior and attitude is of predatory nature….. I challenge Domain Shane to come on here and defend is actions and behavior…..
@Aaron Strong,
Being a domainer reminds me of being onboard the boat. We didn’t have the option to stuff anybody into the torpedo tubes and fire them out to sea. The crew is what it is. Everybody has to find ways to work with – or at least alongside –everybody else because nobody is going away.
“Forgiveness” is a pragmatic sort of thing. Criticism keeps things running, but we have to keep in mind that the person getting criticized isn’t sent into exile. No, he stays elbow to elbow with the rest of us.
Joseph, why are you defending DomainShane?…You are helping the predator not the victims…If he wants to “stay elbow to elbow with the rest of us” he needs to explain himself and apologize, nobody should do this for him. At that point we can discuss forgiveness, which I actually practice regularly…….BTW, when I was stationed on an aircraft carrier there were holding cells for those that did not play by the rules. When someone was disrupting order they would not “stand elbow to elbow with the rest of us” as you mention. Perhaps subs are different, punishment would be at port.
@Aaron Strong,
“Joseph, why are you defending DomainShane?”
I’m not. What I’m doing is defending professional courtesy.
Professional courtesy can’t undo what has been done.
I was about to write the same thing. I never mentioned who wrote the advice yet everybody here assumed that is was the same person.
This is both frightening and reassuring for different reasons.
But I mostly disagree with you Joseph on what you wrote next.
This is not just about sales pitches. This is about someone that provides a list and tries to push people buying crappy domains so he can make a buck by providing some sort of financial strategy that is doomed to fail.
I have read many lists by many different people and none were like this. And this is not the first time that this is happening.
It is a different thing to try to sell a domain at Flippa and a different thing someone providing financial advice with affiliate links.
Sorry, but there are a lot of domainers that I don’t consider as colleagues. We simply don’t have similar methods and we are not alike. Just because we buy and sell domains doesn’t make us colleagues by default.
Nevertheless people that expect to be treated professionally should do so themselves first. Not everything is about money and that is may be why I only have 1 sponsor. I call bullshit when I see it.
And from the comments it seems that many people are annoyed by various things of the past and the present.
Nevertheless my post was as professional as it could be. I didn’t ask for a hang. I simply offered some advice myself which is “do your own thinking and buying”.
Furthermore, just because you are in a ceasefire it doesn’t mean that all other people should be too. People didn’t ask you to when you were involved.
It seems that the ceasefire stops you from seeing the real issue explained in the post.
I may not like the lists but everybody is free to give them. Everybody is free to give financial advice too. But if I don’t like the advice I will simply not shut up.
(BTW the advice was not given in connection with a single domain. It was in the text before the domain list.)
@Konstantinos,
To be perfectly clear, I agree with 100% of what you said in your post. What you criticize deserves to be criticized. What you’ve warned people about, they ought to be concerned about. And I’m all in favor of your writing what you’ve written.
What I was trying to do is draw a line between (A) criticizing sales hype; and (B) condemning Shane Cultra as a sexual predator, which is going too far.
Not sure what you see, from your vantage point in Greece, of our U.S. presidential election. Right now, the culture of disagreement in my country has been so degraded and debased that people are unable to discuss policy differences in a professional way. Instead the 2 sides have become bitterly divided, and the campaign is waging a war in which both candidates are portrayed as sexual predators. Whether they are or aren’t, I’d rather not see discussions here in the domain industry carried out in the same way.
That’s all.
Nobody is obliged to be nice to Shane Cultra. I mentioned our private “ceasefire” because I feel I ought to try to abide by it myself, and people may wonder why I’m not as scathing today as I have been in the past. The answer is simple: When somebody apologizes and asks for the 2 of us to hit the reset button, I feel I ought at least to give it a chance. That applies to me, nobody else.
But here’s the reality: Although Shane Cultra deserves some criticism, he isn’t going to vanish. Much of what he’s done has been pretty bad. Part of what he does is genuinely beneficial. Or, at least, there are some people who would say so. People who despise Domain Shane can’t get rid of Domain Shane. And I see little to be gained by prosecuting a divisive, us-against-them, unwinnable war.
Criticism? Yes, by all means. Everything and everybody is always a legitimate target for criticism. We’re stuck together, though. That’s the point. Colleagues we dislike and don’t respect are still, however much we begrudge them, colleagues.
OK then you concentrated too much on (B) and you totally forgot about the post.
I have watched the 2 debates and a lot more coverage. In the last debate I was really disgusted of what I heard and saw.
What you say now seems to me a bit different to what you said earlier. I get it now.
I didn’t ask for anyone to vanish. I didn’t ask for a war. I ask for people to think. People can decide if they want this advice and these lists.
BTW the reset button doesn’t last forever. The reset button is made as a temporary fix. In computers, anyway…
@Konstantinos,
We don’t disagree at all here. At all.
@Aaron,
My job isn’t to defend Shane. He called me up, said “my bad” (effectively), and promised no more backstabbing in the future. Giving somebody a chance to act differently is just that. Up to him. If I see Shane unfairly attack anybody else in the domain industry again, then I’ll do what I always have done – criticize Shane.
As far as hype goes, from what I’ve seen Shane has toned it down somewhat since the Chinese domain market went into decline. Partly, that’s a self-correcting problem. Shane kept denying that prices were falling for about 2 months after I reported they’d begun to fall. At a certain point, he recognized that he was losing credibility, though, and re-calibrated his sales pitches.
A certain amount of over-optimism is almost inevitable among salesmen. Shane goes farther than some do, but he’s certainly not alone. Selling domains to readers is WHY his DSAD.com site exists. He doesn’t go on DomainSherpa strictly for his ego; he’s in this domaining biz for the money. I think we have to be fair in acknowledging that this is, after all, his business model. We can’t entirely deny him the ability to earn money with it.
All we can legitimately do is give advice to domainers about whom to listen to; how to evaluate investment decisions; and criticize misleading statements – whether by Shane or by me.
Aaron, you’re right; I haven’t heard what Shane said at DomainSherpa. Maybe it was awful. But if it’s no more than Shane saying he enjoys looking at college-age girls, then I can hardly cast that first stone. So do I.
The point is, once we begin criticizing people for being sex predators we forget about criticizing the specifics that relate to the domain industry. Within minutes of your condemning Shane Cultra for his remarks about young women, somebody else shows up and calls me a “pedo” because? … because he disagrees with something I’ve said about domains / domainers.
THAT’S something we don’t need. We’re better off exercising restraint with personal attacks, even when they might be deserved, just so we can stay on topic. And the topic is domains.
Joseph – Fair enough. He apologized to you privately and you accepted. Although, that is not the only apology owed and deserved. There has been many victims over the course of the years I have been reading domain blogs and forums. It comes in waves, it may be silent for some time and then BANG BANG, he hits.. Many people did not have the will or stamina to go up against the bully, so they remain silent or left the industry……In addition, if he wants to clarify his comments on DomainSherpa he is more than welcome to do so on this forum, at this time. Silence is a form of guilt more often than not….Shane do you have anything to say?
@Aaron Strong,
Absolutely, I’m not the only guy Shane owes an apology. I’m just the only guy whose words I have any say in.
The guy asked me to let him do better. If he wants a 2nd chance with other people, then he’ll have to ask them too. If the rest of you don’t buy it, then he can try to show you that he’s past the hype and backstabbing … by not hyping and not backstabbing so much. One thing’s for sure: Shane will have no incentive to restrain himself if he’s attacked or disbelieved regardless of what he now does.
Not the first time he promised to clean up his act. It’s like baseball: 3 strikes, then you’re out. Since I shook his hand this last time, I’d be at fault if I didn’t personally try to give him the benefit of the doubt. Do I think Shane will mend his ways? Honestly, no. Once bitten, twice shy. But I’ll let him try. He could, and that would be preferable than the opposite.
I remember that Sherpa moment where he talks about the young girls, that was pretty disgusting.
Google map his nursery with imaging, it is just a crappy little backwoods store.
Ever since he tried to convince people about .ws, and saying he was making big money with .co, then declared it dead he has been a joke.
Charging people $10 to list their domains that have been advertised to domainers for years is a joke also. Mainstream
Media does not not read his blog, it’s just domainers, most don’t even have the bankroll to bid on most of the domains.
Where are all those 6N.coms he was buying for $40!?
I watched his list, it would have some top keyword the night before and say minimal bidders, obviously everyone waits for the last minute you commission whore.
I’m glad these pampers are getting called out, they just a hype machine. Who knows he could be bidding up auctions hoping to get higher commissions.
He doesn’t put the domains on there he is bidding on that is for damn sure.
I’ve been reading Shane’s list for years and 90% of the comments after the domain name are just jokes. The other 10% are “great name for X business” type comments.
I can hardly remember a time financial advice has been given. As for the his own business, I think it is great that he discusses different ways he is making income and it actually puts into focus that you should not put all your eggs into one basket. Not what you would expect from a “Pump and dump” guy.
He promoted short and numerics, which he did way before the market took off.
From the comments here you would think the guy is Bernie Madoff.
He puts a list together, if you do not like the quality of names do not click onto his site. He is not coming door to door forcing you to read.
It is not that hard to find the advice.
And again, the advice given was not next to a domain. It was a way to pump the “no bids” section of the list.
Also you only seem to remember the obvious advice. Everybody was buying short and numerics since I can remember. It is not rocket science. Even if China falls off the map short and (short) numerics will still be valuable.
You are forgetting a lot of other advice…
So I took it upon myself to find the post you were talking about.
He says…
“A lot of names with no bids today. The key to remember is these types of names are a numbers play. You merely have to sell one at $1000 or $2000 to pay for all of them. Sell two and profit. I certainly don’t have an entire portfolio of these but its certainly a part. And so far so good. Enjoy your Sunday. Here are today’s names. Click for current prices”
Some of the domains listed are..
Big Rumor
Full Relief
Appata
Jeeco
Pure Excellence
Safe Employ
All .Coms
If I did not see names like this sell for $2000 on Sedo lists every month then you could say he is pumping.
Also, would you not say Mike Mann’s business model is exactly as Shane is describing?
I don’t get the “don’t take financial advice” angle here. If your blog is concerned with domains and the point is to sell for more than you buy then every blog is promoting the ability to make money from this asset class and is therefore providing financial advice.
Anyway, that’s my view right or wrong.
“If I did not see names like this sell for $2000 on Sedo lists every month then you could say he is pumping.”
This is bullshit and you know it. People say this all the time to reassure themselves that their crappy domains are good and will sell one day.
And because they simply don’t know a domain name is good and why or are again lazy to research why a domain was sold.
No, Mike Mann is not like this. Mike Mann does not read lists in blogs. I can guarantee that.
Mr Zournas,
Your post below does not have a reply button, so I do not know where this will appear but it is in response to the post….
“Bullshit and you know it”
I am not in the habit of just writing for the sake of it, to defend someone I do not know no less.
You say names like I listed do not sell all the time and yet I see with my own eyes this sort of crap going for $2000. Let us agree to disagree.
I did not say Mike Mann reads lists but I do remember him hand registering 10,000+ crap domains and the business model being selling enough crap to make a profit after covering the costs of the crap remaining, which is again what Shane is advocating. If you say I am wrong here I will acquiesce to your greater knowledge.
I find it odd that within this industry a post like this will appear and then people will come out the woodwork to bash the target. I have seen this quite a few times over the last 6-7 years.
I am not saying he is right and you and the others posting here are wrong or vice versa, by the way, I am just saying this isn’t how gentleman handle their business.
Anthony,
I wrote in the post that even if you sell 2 domains out of the 40 you wouldn’t have made any money.
I didn’t write it is impossible to sell these kind of names.
Mike Mann registered the 10,000+ domains from a list he created. I am sure that this list is better or on par with any other private list in the world. And of course it is better than a public list.
Mike holds domains for an average of 7.5+ years before selling. Can all people afford to do the same? And Mike has thousands of good domains supporting his hand-registrations.
I gave a simple advice in the post but the comments spiraled into different directions. I don’t have control of where the discussion goes but I don’t find it odd. This is the internet.
I don’t agree with some of the name calling here. I have been called several names in the past, especially in this blog, and I don’t mind. Others do.
DomainShane is the biggest MORON in the domain industry today. Very insecure dude as well, always talking about himself to feel important which he never was and never will.
AGREE 100% and Andrew Rosener is full of shit too. they are as bad as adam dicker
onlinedomain.com is where the truth lives.
Konstantinos Zournas doesn’t carry water or suck up to anyone.
every other post/blogger/site on domaining.com sucks up to the establishment domainers.
F–k the “establishment domainers” they are full of s–t thanks Konstantinos for an oasis of truth.
this is the only site that speaks the truth about domaining.
Agree with you on all those points!…Regarding Andrew Rosener, recently there was a Namepros thread that quickly exploded with complaints about him. All of the stories by many people were very similar and very concerning. Namepros, as part of the “establishment”, quickly deleted the thread. It just vanished without a trace. The “establishment domainers” runs deep and KZ calls them out. Hats off to KZ for doing good and keeping the truth so the amount of victims by this “establishment” are lessened.
@Brandon Sagnon,
Konstantinos has principles, as well as insight and experience. He does a good job, often going against the grain.
“onlinedomain.com is where the truth lives.”
No. Truth is homeless. It’s nobody’s pet. Truth has no mailing address. Truth is something that emerges as a bi-product of open-minded discussion, in which every viewpoint is heard and every opinion is critiqued.
Konstantinos is a friend of mine; but, valuable as his perspective is, he has no monopoly on the Truth. Numerous bloggers out there are knowledgeable and trustworthy. What’s more, I’ve never encountered any domainer – no matter how obnoxious – who didn’t sometimes share a valuable opinion or bit of information.
Ever since Adam Dicker was outed, we’ve seen a tendency among domainers to divide this industry into an us-versus-them system. As you put it:
“F–k the ‘establishment domainers'”
There is some truth in people’s resentment. In ways, the domain industry has functioned as a good old boys club. But it’s going too far if we view all prominent domainers as if they were part of an “establishment” conspiracy. I remember having to defend Ron Jackson of DNJournal against attacks, and that’s a bit nuts.
Why on earth would any of us want the domain industry to be divided into antagonistic parties? Are we so enamored of election politics that we want to hate half of our colleagues as well?
People don’t always get along. Yes, there’s privilege at the top. People ought to be skeptical. Because skepticism is part of being open minded. But if we dismiss half the people merely because they’re prominent figures, then we’re not going to get very far. Not in business. Not in learning the truth either.
Someone like Andrew Rosener may act like a jackass on occasion. But he also sells good domains on occasion. He has sold some of mine on occasion. And he points out facts about the domain market on occasion as well. There’s very little benefit in portraying him as Satan. I’d rather do business.
Truth or a Sale can come from anybody anywhere at any time.
This is not where the truth lives. It is where my truth lives and some people also share theirs.
As you said there are others, like Joseph, that speak their truth. People can understand if this “truth” is real to the writer or bullshit.
I also agree that everyone has something useful to share. I talk to anyone that talks to me at Namescon. (and here of course)
I remember talking to a new domainer with almost no domains at all 2 years ago. I learned a few things about bitcoin and he learned some things about domains. win win.
No one is at the same league as Adam.
There are a few other blogs that do great work. A few articles on DomainShane are useful too.
Brandon sagnon be alert of saying that. I never done business with andrew but saw him post once that was the worst i seen by a domainer. It was bad and i saved it to file on my computer in case he ever attack me and i need proof of him nature..
Andrew rosener posts:
I’m so sorry “*******” – did I hurt your feelings? Go find a fucking shoulder to cry on you pansy. Grow up! This is business and you better have thick skin or you’ll get eaten alive.
You embody everything that is wrong with this industry and if you compare me to Adam Dicker again, I swear on all that is holy that I will make it my life’s mission to eliminate you from this industry like the cancer you are. Is that a threat? It sure is. And I’ll make good on it too if you push me.
You took a PRIVATE offer and went out to MY FRIENDS and bragged about me making you an offer. That is inappropriate to say the least. That is why I was angry and it seems that everyone else on this post understands and agrees that you were in the wrong. I couldn’t give less of a shit whether or not you accept my offer. If it’s such a bad offer than why didn’t your domain sell after listing it TWICE on auction? I offered $100 MORE than the highest bid price from both auctions. Your “minimum offer” was $450 and that is what I offered you. You didn’t even have the courtesy to counter offer, you just went around bragging that Media Options wanted to buy your domain. Boy, that must have made you feel awful special huh?
I WANT TO BE LOUD AND CLEAR: Anyone who supports “*******” and anyone that I find out ever does business with this man again, need not ever contact me or try and do business with me or my company. This man is blacklisted as far as I’m concerned. He’s toxic.
Ugh. I didn’t see that Rosener episode. And I don’t know the context for his remarks. But assuming it’s real – and it is, unfortunately, in character for the MediaOptions CEO – I ought to say something.
Intimidation tactics, verbal abuse, threats of lawsuits and physical violence may be the norm for Andrew Rosener. And he may sneer at the rest of us thin-skinned “pansies” for objecting to his thuggishness. But what he insinuates – that this is the norm in business – is simply false.
Media Options customers include companies in the REAL business world, and their executives know what professionalism looks like. If they caught wind of your behavior, Drew, they would find it very unsavory. Given a choice between Media Options and another broker, they might drop you like a hot rock. Brokers are interchangeable.
You know this. This is why every time Andrew Rosener throws a fit he quickly arranges for it to be erased from the public record. If you’re really such a tough guy, Drew, if you have the courage of your convictions, then why so keen to sweep stuff under the rug? Plenty of jerks show themselves in public, warts and all. You just streak past, naked, from time to time.
That sounds like a challenge to be more of a jerk. Try the opposite. Try not threatening people. As you put it: Grow up!
It’s fine if you want to blacklist somebody and not do business with him yourself. But you’re promising to block EVERYBODY who disagrees with you and interacts with that person. Honestly, who do you think you are telling the rest of us how to run OUR business? What arrogance! Right there, you’re threatening every single domainer: Do what I say, or else!
Ironically, for the past few days I’ve been trying to persuade domainers to be less divisive. Trying to persuade people that there is no sinister “establishment” conspiring against the little guys. Yet here comes Andrew Rosener boasting that he IS in charge of industry and can make or break anybody who annoys him. Fantastic!
Lose the ego, pal.
Domainshame is a clown, do people even listen to him? What a joke he is
@Aaron Strong,
What were those negative stories about Rosener that you saw deleted? I missed that. Feel free to share via email or in public.
Joseph – The complaints were very similar to what you have experienced. Mostly, they consisted of physical and legal threats. None the less it is disturbing that Namepros deleted the thread. It shows the depth of the problem in the industry, the collusion and the ability to cover up if needed. On that note I will add that innocent victims by this establishment is not the ones dividing this industry. It is divided by the establishment and only the establishment. Victims are not the problem, their complaints are not the problem. We should not blame the victims or those exposing the truth as being divisive. That would be unjust.
@Aaron Strong,
Who is the establishment? A handful of stars on a podcast? Many domain industry professionals – myself included – don’t even watch that podcast series. It’s just a show. It’s not the industry.
I think people give the domain industry more credit than it deserves when they talk about the “establishment”. Companies and individuals in this space aren’t as organized as that. Registries trip over themselves. Registrars too – just look at Moniker awhile back.
And there’s a lot of healthy competition – DropCatch versus NameJet versus Pheenix versus GoDaddy Auctions … Sedo versus Afternic versus DomainNameSales … etc. These companies aren’t in cahoots. They’re competitors.
I wish somebody would give me a list of everybody in the “establishment” who’s not to be trusted. Which people are evil and which are ok. How prominent can we allow a domainer to be before we must add him to the “establishment” list?
Ron Jackson from DNJournal? I’ve heard he’s one of the villains. Andrew Allemann, my publisher over at DNW.com? Is he out to get us?
I don’t mean to minimize your concerns, Aaron. There are genuine issues here. Some prominent domainers are overrated. Some, like Adam Dicker, were exploitative parasites. Some celebrities are just jerks.
The reality is that individual domainers and companies act badly. That deserves to be criticized. We can do that without framing things in a 2-party system of insiders and outsiders. This industry is much more disorganized than that.
Agreed 100%.
Joseph – I disagree with your views on the “establishment” and I am confident you know who is on that list, as small as it is. I will refer to your last sentence, “This industry is much more disorganized than that.” That is fundamentally at the heart of our disagreement. The domain industry is very organized. Most of it very good, but our subject today is about the bad. The good news is that the bad is very small. I am not talking about some big huge industry wide conspiracy theory. So lets not blow this into something bigger than what it really is. I am talking about a few punks that violate good honest people both financially and emotionally. Adding to the problem is the cover ups showing collusion and precise ORGANIZATION. Perhaps this is why conspiracy theories exist, because there is evidence of conspiracy by definition. Again, the issue is only with several punks and is absolutely not a true indicator regarding the integrity of the entire industry.
Aaron, I think you give too much credit to some people that you call the “establishment”. They are not that organized.
There are some links in the domain industry but these are not widespread and also very volatile.
Then I read you wrote this “I am not talking about some big huge industry wide conspiracy theory. So lets not blow this into something bigger than what it really is. I am talking about a few punks that violate good honest people both financially and emotionally.” so we agree!
The truth is that even one person can cause a lot of financial damage to a lot of people so we all should be careful.
The thing that annoys me the most are these cover-ups you mention. Sure, the cover-ups are a small percentage in the industry but there should be none.
@Aaron, both sides asked us to intervene by removing the thread, as they no longer wished to discuss the matter in public. We left them to sort it out on their own.
—
Edward Zeiden
Managing Director
NamePros
Edward – In other words the person that originally posted the thread was threatened by Andrew and thus asked to have it removed. That was pretty clear in the thread itself.
I missed all that as well…
share…
DomainBELL at Yahoo.com
Yea that baldie from the sherpa show is an ass, I remember him at dnforum, he used to make lowball bids for 3l.com and say valid for 2 hours, then lowball, if someone questions his offer, he has a hissy fit, and throws a tantrum like a baby, then expects insane pricing for his recent aftermarket purchases.
These people are not heros, or not anyone to look up to, they are just hustlers trying to make a buck as fast as they can.
They don’t give 2 F’s about you, you see them give advice oh this domain is worth $50K, I will give you $500 for it right now!
@courtesy.vip we treat everyone as a VIP 🙂
If someone cannot filter domain name advice, they should not be Investing in domains. But i am not defending anyone here either.
I remember when someone made fun of people for buying new gTLDs, now they are promoting them. So no one is perfect.
Common sense has to come into play at some point people. You and you only, make the final decision.
I did not buy into the China CHIP craze, nor did I buy into new gTLDs. I bought what I thought made sense to the average person (end-user), simple and easy to understand .com names.
The domain Industry is still in the later stages of the wild west phase and it needs to mature more.
Andrew Rossner been lying for years and Domain Shane is just stupid. Rossner and Shane both trying to bully people, well they are getting very close to doing that to the wrong person, and that will be the end of both of them. Rossner threatening people to knock there teeth out, there are many people who will break Rossner into pieces if he does that to them. Shane talking about young college girls what a loser he is.
I think it was Joseph Peterson above he threatned to knock his teeth out on Elliots Blog a few months back, then someone posted a legal description of the law and threats, and the Panamainian extridiate slithered away.
Why would someone move everything away to do business in Panama?
Who is Media Options, Is it Rosener, or some other elements involved, he is very shady about talking about it.
I feel like the people on this post are the same people on the fox news site. I understand not liking someone and saying you don’t like them, but why so angry about it? Lots of anger here.
Agreed 100%. These people need to get a life.
If they are so smart, why don’t they have a blog, share their successes, give tips to others. Because they’re likely not successful. They live a sad life. They’re bitter, which is why they attack others all the time.
Look at Trump. Why does he always look for every opportunity to tear down others (not just Hillary, every f**ken person who says something about him) — because he’s insecure and cannot handle the truth.
I used to read this site regularly. It just seems like the deplorables have found a new home.
I wish you all well. I’m going to another site.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Tina not everybody wants to have a blog. Actually most smart people don’t have one.
Goodbye.
@Tina,
With patience, if people talk to one another enough, nearly any rift is bridgeable.
@Joseph Peterson, I love your input, but can you sum of your comments like in 2 sentences? Your long posts/comments is really bad for my ADHD(lol) Your right, Rossner and Domain Shame have been exposed for the CON men they are. The only difference between them and Adam Dicker is Adam has hair.
@Eric Chalmers,
Yes. But sound bytes are simplistic.
this is was an unnecessary post from you. i dont know what is wrong between you too but i read both of your blogs.
Nothing wrong between us. I just happened to read something by accident that deserved a post. As you can see the comments have a life of their own. Comments can go to any direction.
Konstantinos,
Reading the post second time i have to admit i was wrong. The comments took another direction but the post was right.
On the other hand one has to be careful in every industry he gets in. Experience is not cheap, you learn by time and spending money.
Blogs are not charities but i refuse that the lists are not worth a penny, “if they would the blogger would by them” thinking is not true. He may be to focused on making his own job and miss an opportunity.
I bought and sold from lists and made money.
The brief should be, “listen and read everybody but it will take time till you construct your own character and style.” Patience is the key.
But then again if you are the get-rich-quick style character and you are just buying domains to hit the jackpot, please buy a lottery ticket.
Like every other business, you have to have the necessary skills and passion for what you do.
I liked naming and branding well before there was internet. Internet made me to do it online.
Fatih – The sad reality is that this post is very necessary. There is no other blog or forum that would allow for the constructive criticism of domain professionals (I use that term loosely) that take advantage of innocent and less informed people. There is no other place to learn and understand of the scams that take place in this industry. Through out the years there have been several. These scams are too often hidden by others and swept under the rug by accomplices. Too often those inflicting the financial and emotional pain are being empowered by others and given a form of credibility that is undeserving and wreaking chaos. I wish I could agree with you when you say, “this was an unnecessary post from you.” Reality is not always joyful, we must face the truth and discussing it helps everyone.
Aaron,
reading it the second time i have to admit there is nothing wrong with the posts but seeing the comments pushing hard on Shane( i have never met him btw) i dont think he deserves that.
No one teached me domaining and i lost money when learning. If one lies about the value of a domain intentionally you are right but i think Shane believes in his posts. He has refused me from time to time for the domains i sent to him saying” sorry i see no value in this domain for buyers”.
He was right well before even the domain king telling the prices of NNNN domains are going higher. If a newbie listened to him that day he could made a fortune.
He was wrong on some other investments? So what. did he tell you he is the Messiah that will cure the blind , and we all are waiting for.:)
you post has brought in commentors that I’ve never seen online anywhere else…
that’s a good thing… I like seeing new folks and what they are doing…
such as that cool idea behind the site Faith Ozturk has…
~Patricia Kaehler — Ohio USA — DomainBELL
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you = your
nice to meet you Patricia.:) in fact i had made comments to many of the blogs and i dont remember seing you too. Hope to attend one of the shows this year and hope to meet you there.
also thanks for the comment for my site. 🙂
Trolls don’t have blogs because they’d have to be held accountable for such comments. Every passive aggressive commentator here like this Sagnon bloke are sockpuppet accounts. Go figure out who they really are. They show their true colours eventually but you will never meet them at domain conferences, I assure you.
I don’t like blogs that turn off comments conveniently …….aka .xyz fake numbers and the let’s ignore it factor.
Many folk tend to form the opinion of a “spin doctor” Industry when we see some of the underhanded stuff that goes on ….. good to see people voicing their opinions about the boys club mentality in this epik industry of metrics