OnlineDomain.com Domain Name News & Opinions
I am starting a new section on OnlineDomain.com and a series of posts today. This section is going to be dedicated to all these people that agree to buy a domain name and then refuse to pay and complete the transaction giving various excuses. The people that are known as the “Deadbeat Buyers”.
These are people that don’t follow the laws, the rules of society and most importantly abide by no honor code. Thus, they are ruthless people that have no place in business, commerce and are a menace to society.
This section will portray such people and attempt to expose them to the world. I will give out any details I can find so that these people don’t wrong anyone else in the future. Anyone that wants to conduct any type of transactions with these people will have these posts as a reference to the person’s ethics and integrity, or rather lack of.
Here is the first DBBDB inductee:
Name: Henry Porter
Location: London, United Kingdom.
Email: henryporter@btconnect.com
Henry Porter is an English author and journalist. Henry Porter is specialising in liberty and civil rights. (the irony) He is a writer of thrillers and until 2014 a regular columnist for The Observer newspaper. He is also the British editor of Vanity Fair.
Here are some links so you can learn more about Henry Porter:
Official Website (henry–porter.com)
Twitter (@henrycporter)
Wikipedia link
Here is a small history of our communications regarding the purchase of a domain name that Mr Henry Porter agreed to buy and entered a binding contract:
Mar-2-2015
Henry Porter:
interested in buying e*****3.com
Mar-2-2015
Me:
Dear Henry Porter,
The seller informs us they would sell the domain episode3.com to you for €4000 Euro.
Please add 23% sales tax (FPA) to the price if you are located in the European Union and don’t have a VAT number.
Buyer pays any escrow fee.
This offer is valid for 7 days.
Any offers made by the buyer are valid for 7 days in which period an acceptance from the seller makes the offer a binding contract between the 2 parties. Failure of the buyer to pay within 7 days after the acceptance of the offer will incur legal proceedings against the buyer in a court of law in the buyer’s jurisdiction.
Mar-2-2015
Henry Porter:
Konstantinos
All good.
We will buy.
My partner,. Steven Murphy <steve@s*****o.com> , will complete the purchase. I will copy your message above to him. Do you have an email? Or shall I simply give him the link to this page?. best wishes, Henry
Mar-2-2015
Me:
Dear Henry Porter,
my email is b*****m.
Please include your company name, address and VAT number.
And your email that I would use for the escrow.com transaction.
Mar-2-2015
Henry Porter:
Hi Konstantinos,
Our company is yet to be formed and we do not have a VAT number. Des this matter? Do you need a number? I have a personal VAT number. Will this do?
Mar-3-2015
Me:
Dear Henry Porter,
yes it does matter as I will have to charge you for VAT tax if you don’t have a VAT number.
Please send me your personal VAT number and address so I can check if that will do ok.
Mar-9-2015
Me:
Please reply to my emails
Mar-9-2015
Henry Porter:
Thank you for your emails: we are considering a number if names. Henry
Mar-9-2015
Me:
Dear Henry Porter,
I do not I understand what you mean.
We have a binding deal for the sale of the domain name e******3.com.
Please send me your details so we can start the transaction.
Mar-9-2015
Henry Porter:
There is no binding agreement.
Mar-9-2015
Me:
Dear Henry Porter,
OH YES there is.
I suggest you read the emails and consult with your lawyer.
You have 7 days to pay starting now
Mar-12-2015
Me:
Dear Henry Porter,
just reminder that you have until the 16th of March to make a payment. You canceled the escrow.com transaction but does not mean anything. I gave you an opportunity to pay and avoid legal action.
You have entered into a binding contract and we will make any necessary legal arrangements so we can collect. We will sue you in a Greek court and then on a UK court.
Mar-12-2015
Henry Porter:
Mr Zournas,
There was no contract. I simply withdrew from a negotiation.
You will know from your time in the UK that this does not amount to a
contract.
This correspondence is at an end.
Henry Porter
Mar-12-2015
Me:
Dear Henry Porter,
I made an offer, you accepted. Negotiations were over.
This is what UK law says about it:
http://www.inbrief.co.uk/contract-law/evidence-required-to-show-breach-of-contract.htm
See you in court and on deadbeat buyers database.
This is only getting started.
Others will learn from your mistakes.
Konstantinos Zournas
He then stopped replying to me emails and contacted escrow.com to cancel the transaction I had started. I am not sure what he thought but the transaction was just a way for him to pay for the domain name he agreed to buy. Canceling the transaction at Escrow.com did not cancel the agreement we had.
Good luck Henry Porter. I hope this post will help other people know who you really are.
Great idea. Add these guys to the list: http://domaingang.com/domain-news/domain-obituary-nepali-kusal-shrestha-deadbeat-domainer-rip/
It looks like the deal breaker could have been the VAT number and/or extra VAT tax????…..From an American perspective, a perfect example of how taxation corrupts capitalism…..
I don’t think so because he said he had a personal VAT number.
Understood, I don’t mean to diminish the fact that this buyer committed to the sale and backed out. That would absolutely constitute a “Dead beat buyer” as you mentioned and have appropriately categorized…..
The bottom line: If you don’t intend to pay, don’t make a binding offer. Don’t waste people’s time and resources. Some people think this is a game.
I have this “buyer” that told me that he has made several offers today at Sedo.
These people don’t understand that all their offers can be accepted and that then they should buy all domains and not just pick one of the ten. And if you do this at Sedo you will probably not have the opportunity to buy one of the domains because your account will be suspended.
Why not inform his followers on Twitter @henrycporter
Good idea.
find a picture of him…
show us…
You can easily google him. He is sort of famous.
Kostas,
Here’s another case (case #2) for your Deadbeat Buyers Database:
This guy backed out of a domain deal involving one of our clients after accepting Escrow terms. The domain was CellularAlarmSystem.com.
We have all details and evidences, including email feeds and Escrow screenshot.
The guy is a ROGER PATTERSON, his company is Colorado Springs Alarm – EA3 LTD, Colorado Springs, CO, his email is ea3ltd@gmail.com and also coloradospringsalarm@gmail.com
We warmly suggest to AVOID to DEAL with this guy for your DOMAIN TRANSACTIONS, people BEWARE!
Listen, I hate deadbeat buyers as much as the next person -trust me.
But you guys posting their personal emails, business names…etc seems like bad juju. And frankly, uncool.
Non-payers are part of the business and we take our lumps with them, but tossing their personal information around is pretty pedantic and not good for reputation. Some buyers wish to deal anonymously – and seeing that there are sellers throwing out identifying details because they got shafted isn’t professional at all.
In a nutshell, the little satisfaction you’re getting right now in doing this may cost you thousands in the long run.
This guy didn’t negotiate anonymously and his emails, company name are publicly available, just do a little search …
I think instead that what those deadbeats avoid to pay for a domain will be nothing compared to the loss of reputation in the domain industry … who would like to deal again with guys like those? i guess nobody, unless you are a masochist …lol 😀
What? Its OK for these people to want to deal anonymously, then back out — anonymously too? Otherwise, to post their information AND THE TRUTH of breaching a business contract is NOT OK? Do I have that correct? Cause if I do, you, sir, are a buffoon.
Remind me to never do business with you…….oh wait, I probably have already.
You have no idea of what are you talking about, also legally speaking … good luck!
Tomas Darius Davainis
Marketing Manager at SEO Booste, Organic SEO
Lithuania
Current Interweb Lt., SEO Booste, Organic SEO
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Did make an offer for one of my domains at sedo.com and failed topay up or even reply to numerous request for payment .
https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=82950166&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=FlqJ&locale=en_US&trk=tyah&trkInfo=tarId%3A1433989653290%2Ctas%3Atomas%20darius%20%2Cidx%3A1-1-1
https://www.facebook.com/groups/449338231857594/?fref=ts
Konstantin, unless you left something out or dealt with a brokerage platform, I’m afraid you do not have a legal binding contract. You failed to accept his offer. Instead of writing “Please include your VAT, etc” you should have written “I hereby accept your offer. Please send me your details to complete the transaction”. Then you would have a legally binding contract.
You can read more here: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/contracts-101-make-legally-valid-30247.html
“When Acceptance Occurs
In day-to-day business, the seemingly simple steps of offer and acceptance can become quite convoluted. For instance, sometimes an offer isn’t quickly and unequivocally accepted; the other party may want to think about it for a while, or try to get a better deal. And before the other party accepts your offer, you might change your mind and want to withdraw or amend it. Delaying acceptance of an offer and revoking an offer, as well as making a counteroffer, are common situations that may lead to confusion and conflict. To minimize the potential for a dispute, here are some general rules you should understand and follow.”
In particular:
“If you want to accept someone else’s offer, the best approach is to do it as soon as possible, while there’s no doubt that the offer is still open. Keep in mind that until you accept, the person or company who made the offer — called the offeror — may revoke the offer.”
So is essence you are not only hurting your reputation by starting a useless database (it’s great you want to help other people, but its not going to help anyone because those are very individual cases) you will also have to pay for lawyers and we all know how expensive it gets. And you will lose this.
It’s only 4k, so use it as a lesson and next time make sure you actually accept his offer. Then you can go to court if you really want the hassle of the paperwork.
I know he said that he accepts your offer and it would be honorful if we would stick to it, but since you failed to accept as well I dont think you have much of a legal basis. I am not a lawyer but that’s what it looks like to me.
Best of luck..
What are you talking about. I made the offer and he accepted. What offer I should accept?
I think you should have started with the “I am not a lawyer” and leave it at that. Best of luck to you too.
K, it’s likely that Henry Porter and Oliver are correct and that there was no binding contract because of the way your email was worded. You may want to consider changing it.
This is not legal advice.
I don’t know about Greek law, but under English law, there are two possible analyses.
a. Offer and acceptance (favours K)
Near-bottom of K’s first email says “this offer is valid for 7 days”
– offer made by K (seller)
– offer accepted by H (buyer) (“we will buy”)
=> contract
b. Invitation to treat and offer (favours H)
BUT very bottom of K’s first e-mail says “Any offers made by the *buyer* are valid for 7 days in which period an acceptance from the *seller* makes the offer a binding contract” (emphasis added).
– suggests that offers must be made by the buyer (H)
– so despite “this offer is valid for 7 days” language, K’s first e-mail is instead an “invitation to treat” (=invitation to negotiate)
– offer then made by H to buy at price in K’s e-mail: (“we will buy”)
– offer must then be accepted by K within 7 days, but there is no clear acceptance by K
=> H is correct to say that there was no contract and that he withdrew from negotiations (but probably not for the reason he suggests – he actually makes an offer, which K could have accepted)
– possible counter-argument: K accepts H’s offer by requesting company details (but this is difficult – test for acceptance is objective and unlikely that this standard is met in this way)
– possible counter-argument: H’s “we will buy” comment is not an offer but rather an acceptance of K’s offer (see above), but again, this is contradicted by the last paragraph in K’s e-mail.