OnlineDomain.com Domain Name News & Opinions
This is getting ridiculous from all aspects. I can’t even keep up with all the ridiculousness.
Just after .XYZ launched this ridiculous promotion offering 1.111 billion numeric .xyz domain names at under a buck, a few people found tens of NNN.xyz domains available to register and of course went ahead and registered them. Isn’t this what people do when they find available names?
A thread at the gtld.link forum has a lot of the details of what happened.
One person bought 2 NNN.xyz at $2 each:
150.xyz
185.xyz
“Ps, i think 150.xyz is one of my five best new gTLDs, so I am obviously happy.” Not so fast!
Another person bought 32 NNN.xyz domains:
176.xyz
175.xyz
174.xyz
173.xyz
172.xyz
170.xyz
169.xyz
167.xyz
165.xyz
164.xyz
162.xyz
159.xyz
157.xyz
154.xyz
153.xyz
152.xyz
149.xyz
147.xyz
146.xyz
145.xyz
143.xyz
142.xyz
140.xyz
137.xyz
134.xyz
130.xyz
129.xyz
127.xyz
125.xyz
124.xyz
107.xyz
104.xyz
The result was that later the .xyz registry took all domain names without even sending an email or providing an explanation:
“All 32 of my NNN.xyz domains have had 1 year taken off the expiration date (without a refund) and no longer resolve because they are in the Pending Delete status. It seems XYZ registry is attempting to claw back the domains.
And now it looks like 150.xyz and 185.xyz were just set to Pending Delete status as well. I’ve emailed both Dynadot and XYZ Registry to get an explanation.”
Dynadots response:
“We received an email from the .xyz registry last night. These domains*were reserved/premium domains, and an error on their part allowed the domains to be registered for standard fees. They are not honouring the registrations, unfortunately.
The domains will be deleted, and your payment refunded. That should be completed*either tomorrow or Monday morning.
My sincerest apologies on behalf of the registry.”
Finally someone expressed his disappointment to the New gTLD program:
“M&M cheated me with indian.cooking
dot paris with fashionweek.paris
dot cologne asked me to drop my names
dot bet cheated me with smart.bet
Frank Schilling increased his renewals
Many domainers already renewed some names for years because they do not trust the registry. This is a reputation catastrophe This basis is a nightmare for the customer (reseller & enduser) .
who cares ? maybe the next registry cares !
I will not spend 500$ for a vist.africa or hello.africa (EAP fee) on this basis. fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I only trust DONUTS and I already started to get rid off all the other names.”
Daniel Negari and the .XYZ registry have not yet provided any feedback on this new reputation disaster.
What I suggest is to trust no one and to triple check your auto-renewal settings on the 1 cent .xyz domains you bought last year. You don’t want any nasty surprises.
UPDATE:
The registrant that lost the 32 domains finally got a reply from .xyz:
“Just to give an update, XYZ finally responded to me. Pretty much a slap in the face.
Hi Brock,
Unfortunately, these domains were registered in error. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Your registrar should have credited you for the transaction already. Please follow up with them if you don’t see a credit.
Thanks,
Shayan”
OnlineDomain.com - © Copyright 2012-2024 - All Rights Reserved
RIP.XYZ
If they did it on a deep-pocket company, a lawsuit would have followed or honoring the sale enforced. But they did in on “average Joe”, who by the way, were warned by this forum not to proceed.
What a joke these people are.
First of all 3-letter .XYZ domains are not premium AT ALL.
That said it really wouldn’t make any sense for the registrants to sue the registry. For what? Worthless domain crap? Certainly not. Be happy that they took them away. Free lesson learned: Stick to the gold standard .com and add some nice ccTLDs like .de or co.uk to the mix. Stay away from all the other crap.
The XYZ offer claims they can be “traded as digital currencies”. Whatever that’s supposed to mean.
XYZ should explain the connection between this arbitrary list of longtail .xyz domains and crypto-currencies.
Where is the blockchain to underpin it?
How can they possibly act as a distributed ledger?
The price of a Ripple yesterday was 26 cents with I think no renewal. It is backed by blockchain with members like BOA.
In contrast these .xyz domains have an “Early Bird” price of .88 cents and who knows what renewal.
XYZ warns that IPv4 addresses are running out but conveniently fails to mention that IPv6 is being rolled out.
IPv6 will have 340 trillion trillion addresses.
.XYZ domains are like money. Money that the registry can take off your pocket when they please.
Welcome to domain names 2.0!
Claw Back, give me a break. LOL
Honestly what did he expect, take advantage of a glitch and everything will remain the same?
It’s not like he didn’t know there was a problem, here’s his quotes from the thread:
06-01-2017, 08:01 AM
Ummm yeah. Someone definitely screwed up somewhere
06-01-2017, 08:28 AM
And thanks for the heads up on this! I just regged 32 NNN.xyz domains.
So after knowing someone or something screwed up it’s thanks for the heads up and let me go try. Wow I got 32 of them! That’s called trying to take advantage of a malfunction and not free premium domains from .xyz and then making a stink after the fact. Come on…
So why not trying to not f*ck up all the time?
This is either a .xyz registry f*ck up or a CentralNic one. Neither is foreign to similar disasters.
Every week is a disaster, just look at the drops!
Konstantinos, never said it wasn’t an issue, had it happen to me with Bostonivy. I’m commenting on what took place with the NNN.xyz domains and how it’s being portrayed.
Yes, how dare a customer simply register a domain that was available.
I have never heard of COM/NET/ORG allowing a domain to be registered, populated with the buyer’s WHOIS information, and transferred to their account…then get “reclaimed”. Yet this constantly happens with new extensions.
I guess you have to be careful who you deal with.
When an extension is built on a shaky foundation like with forced opt-out registrations to begin with, millions of worthless penny regs, and some .XYZ = bitcoin nonsense sales pitch, what do you really expect?
Brad
This is very poor and not the first time new gtlds have been clawed back. If these NNN.xyz were available to register, the person who registered them shouldn’t be at fault, it should be the registry who made them available – and they should honor the registrations! Uncertain renewal prices, sporadic sales, and things like this have heavily decreased my interest in new gtlds at this point. Of my own registrations, I will only be keeping the ones I like best that have reasonable renewal fees, dropping the rest, and really limit any future registrations. There is the odd success story with new gtld sales, or companies picking a new gtld for their website, but the uptake has been really slow and if this really is a 10 to 20 year deal then it will be very hard to hold a portfolio for that long with renewal fee increase shenanigans and the uncertainty of things like this happening. Kudos to those registries who honor these types of registrations and don’t claw back the domains, and have reasonable renewal fees in the range of .com and .net.
I paid for a day 2 registration for a .football domain. I made sure to get in early (well before launch) and I already paid the premium (four figure) fee at both Enom and GoDaddy so I’d have the best chance of getting the domain. My money ($5k) was held for like 2 months and then the time comes until .football launches and when it launches I don’t receive the domain (and I knew no one paid the $10k for day 1 registration). I contacted the registry and was told “this domain has been placed in our reserved list”. It wasn’t on the damn list for the past two months but only now when it opens up it magically is reserved.
I’d bet my bottom dollar they waited to see how many people pre-reserve a domain or showed interest in it and for the popular ones they keep them for themselves. There’s no oversight, it’s the wild west and the consumer gets shafted EVERY SINGLE TIME.
And of course I had to chase down one of the refunds.
You are probably referring to fantasy.football. Half the domaining community had it pre-registered for day 2 🙂
I don’t recognize a single person posting here as familiar to me. What I mean is, I see none of the usual well known people saying a word except you, Konstantinos, which is commendable. And there is total silence about this so far over at TheDomains, DNW, and DI.
Are people seriously going to keep quiet about this? Is Negari and friends among the special ones now that aren’t going to have this kind of thing talked about?
.com is king. 🙂
Danielle Negari has been ripping people off forever in different things, such as this 2009 fraud case:
//www.google.by/search?q=4chan+digibyte+pump&oq=4chan+digibyte+pump&aqs=chrome..69i57.6504j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=4chan+digibyte+pump+site:boards.4chan.org
He is going to piss the wrong person off, and you know what happens then!
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/beverly-hills-mint-berta-negari-daniel-negari/beverly-hills-california-90211/beverly-hills-mint-berta-negari-daniel-negari-berta-negari-and-daniel-negari-beverly-hi-446350
Scott,
That report shows the company domain as Beverlyhillsmint.com but if you visit the site, you’ll see it redirects to Beverlyhillsmint.xyz
Those domains are registered to his wife! It looks like they never stopped scamming people, they just set their sites on a bigger pyramid.
Registrant Name: Berta Negari
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: 2800 Olympic Blvd
Registrant City: Santa Monica
Registrant State/Province: California
Registrant Postal Code: 90404
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.2132806072
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Email: berta@bhmint.com
Reuben,
And this happened in 2009, surprised people didn’t research this about Negari when he launched .xyz. Once a scum, always a scum!
Sorry, Berta is his Mom not his wife as the rip off report states which makes things even worse. I guess his mom taught him how to scam people in her business and he branched out to run his own scam!
All the people in this thread mentioning the words “premium” and “.xyz” in the same sentence really need to be taken around the back of the bikesheds and introduced to Mr. Cluebat.
LOL
Negari mom in on the scam with him, I bet he still sucks on her nipple as well.
What a nasty disgusting comment. Don’t get personal man. @Kostas – consider deleting this comment.
Wow, taking all those names back = really bad business
How discusting. And they are so rude as to pretend it all to be settled with a simple refund. Wait a minute. What about the hours invested in getting hold of those domains?! Isn’t the time spent by the registrant worth anything?!
Besides let’s not forget when a registrant pays for a domain its because for HIM the domain is worth MORE than what he payed.
So merely doing a refund is not nearly as close to a fair compensation.
So the whole point of the new Gs was that we are running out of .coms (and I guess .net,.info,… too). Poor registrants… but if registries are holding back the best domains, then we are back to square one. The whole new gTLD program adds no value at all. And it creates some messes by the look of it. Maybe the whole program has more to do with corruption than with serving registrants… Somebody should be held responsable for this.
ICANN should do something for the protection of registrants of these domains and other new GTLDS. And there should be more strict supervision and control over ICANN by the authorities.
The new GTLD industry seems to be moving toward CHAOS!!!!!!!!!
Thank you very much for the good articles. Without your blogs, which are not boot-licking some industry guys, a lot of people will be blind about what’s going on in this industry.
Honestly, I think some people are overreacting to this. It’s not a scam. It’s a mistake. Even though the domains were never meant to be buyable, a glitch allowed them to be bought for $2 each.
Sometimes websites have checkout glitches, and the buyer is given a price drastically lower than the seller intended. Sometimes the order cannot be fulfilled at all. In this instance, with .XYZ, the order COULD have been fulfilled.
Some companies, in that position, might honor the transaction, accept the financial loss, and congratulate the buyer on taking their inventory for practically nothing, thanks to a glitch they’d overlooked and which is ultimately their fault.
But would you have done that? Suppose you accidentally listed 32 domains for sale. Suppose you didn’t want to have them listed for sale anywhere, but a glitch in a big batch process listed them all for sale at Flippa with $1 minimum bids and no reserve. So, without realizing it, you lose 32 domains for $2 each. And suppose these are domains you value in the 3, 4, or 5 figures each. What would you do? Wouldn’t you try to cancel the transactions, explaining to the buyer that it was all a mistake? I’ll bet you would.
That’s what happened in this .XYZ case, after all. Yes, they could afford to let the customer keep the domains that were erroneously made purchasable. And that would have been better for PR. But realistically not all companies are that generous when they screw up.
Sometimes the lady at the cash register undercharges me. If she has to cancel the order and charge me full price, I don’t scream about the Apocalypse.
The guy who registered these 32 domains is understandably frustrated to have them clawed back. He will survive, though.
This supposed error was not caught at the point of sale. The domain was paid for and registered to the owner then later “reclaimed”.
If I go into a store and buy a priced product, then take it home the store has no right to reclaim the item from me. Why should a domain be different than any other product?
If I make an error pricing my domain, and it sells on a venue and is transferred to the buyer, do I have the same rights to “reclaim” the domain?
Or, is it just registries that reserve the right to f*ck over customers?
Brad
There are a lot ways to correct such a mistake. Deleting the domains without even sending an email is not one of the better ones.
A better (but not optimal) way would have been an official explanation BEFORE the domains are deleted, an apology and some sort of compensation except getting your money back (like a credit to buy 32 .xyz domains or something).
Could have been handled better, I agree. Both to prevent to unwarranted purchase and – if there was to be a clawback – to smooth things over afterward.
Still, Konstantinos, to hear domainers pulling their hair out and wailing about this, you’d think it were worse than the warfare in Syria.
Wasting people’s time is something that many people don’t take lightly. Including me.
And I don’t think it is fair to compare anything with Syria.
@Konstantinos,
It’s fine if you want to write an article about a registry clawing back domains. This has happened repeatedly over the years, and the articles always get some deserved attention.
However, some readers are standing outside my window with pitchforks and torches merely because Epik sells the TLD. That’s a crazy overreaction, don’t you think?
I think we have reached a tipping point where registrars should take a stand and some already have.
More .xyz domains were clawed back after these NNN.xyz. When will this all end?
I think you (all registrars) need to start protecting your customers. Sometimes registrars know better and this is a situation that you certainly know better.
If you want to constantly have dissatisfied customers it is your choice. If I had a registrar I wouldn’t accept .xyz registrations. But that is just me.
I have no idea what easy cheese is but it sounds like something I wouldn’t have in my supermarket either.
Freedom is good but that doesn’t mean you should always give access to everything.
People are probably free to install lead pipes in their own home. That doesn’t mean that YOU have to sell them. Leave it to someone else to provide that “freedom”.
And this is not about Epik that is probably one of the 5 best registrars. It just happens that you are here talking while no other registrar even dares to.
If registrars start cutting off bad actors then we could actually see some accountability from the registries.
Scammers NEVER apologize for their actions so it’s no surprise Negari didnt, hell, he sure didn’t apologize to the people he has scammed in the past, he’s certainly not going to now.
He is just going to keep on scamming by bringing in new suckers to his pyramid scheme. Just like he claws back domains that were already registered without warning alleging they are premiums, just like selling his snake oil.
At the end of the day, you are still doing business with a scammer so don’t be surprised when the day comes when he scams Epik & your customers! Epik needs to decide what’s more important, doing business with a scammer or losing valuable customers because of some scam.
It’s good to know you have been the biggest critic of .xyz in years past, but to say their isn’t scammy warning signs happening now is really turning a blind eye to the reality of what is happening. So what took you from being a critic to a cheerleader? You can’t really compare domains to food because people can live without domains, especially scam domains, but they can’t live without food. Selling domains that are operated by a scammer while having no interest in them does not sound like good business at all. It sounds like you only care about making money off people who are naive enough to fall prey to this scammer!
Seriously, if I scammed a bunch of people, should I then start a registrar and go into business with Epik? Is the prerequisite to working with your company, how many people I have scammed. How do you gleam over this issue and still continue doing business as usual. Is it really alright to scam people to get ahead in this industry? Is that normal & acceptable to Epik?
@Reuben,
“So what took you from being a critic to a cheerleader?”
When have I ever been an .XYZ cheerleader? Just because I haven’t joined a lynch mob, that makes me a cheerleader?
“You can’t really compare domains to food because people can live without domains, especially scam domains, but they can’t live without food.”
People can live without “Easy Cheese”.
“Is it really alright to scam people to get ahead in this industry? Is that normal & acceptable to Epik?”
What on earth are you talking about? Epik didn’t scam anybody. .XYZ lowering its prices to $1 isn’t a scam. It’s a sale. You don’t have to LIKE what’s on sale.
But in what sick universe is a SALE a SCAM?!?!?!?
Registrars sell TLDs. As great a variety as possible.
That’s what they do. That’s what they’re there for. It’s not immoral for Epik to sell a TLD just because you happen to dislike or disapprove of it. Book stores sell books I think are trash. But I don’t call the book store managers immoral scammers.
Get a grip, my friend!
The book store is a great analogy because bookstores often remove books from their selection because the author turned out to be a scammer or was dishonest.
No, you clearly missed my point, it’s a moral outrage to do business with a scammer that has a history of scamming people and is bringing this drama to the domain industry in a big way.
Joseph,
It just may be a trick question, but would your company (Epik) willingly and knowingly do business with someone who has a history of scamming people? A scammer that is now losing domainers trust everyday by destroying his reputation in the domain industry by trying to sell 1 billion worthless domains which most aren’t even registered in .com. The he turns around and claws back registrations on tens of domains.
Unfortunately, this isn’t the only drama surrounding him and his company, XYZ, which is full of drama and all of this are just symptoms or rather “warning signs” that people are dealing with a scammer so they will never know his next move because it is unfathomable to this industry.
.XYZ is the standard for corruption which is why most of the domains are parked or “In Use” for Spamming the internet. Remember in a top-down pyramid scheme, you have to mimic what the top is doing.
As I know, Donuts is the only honest domain operator of ngtlds, or maybe they just haven’t let the rabbit out of the bag as others are doing a great job of destroying all hope for the ngtlds.
@Reben,
If Daniel Negari had to point to 1 guy who was .XYZ’s biggest critic online over the years, then he would almost certainly point to me. That’s not an exaggeration. Do some digging online. I was vociferous and scathing.
Indeed, in the past, the registry was involved with stunts that struck me as scammy – for instance, the Network Solutions registrar stuffing back in 2014. I was fiercely critical of that misleading strategy 3 years ago. And I also criticized the 1-penny registration dump later on.
But I don’t see any scams in 2017.
Here is the main point: Everybody ought to be allowed to buy whichever TLD they want to buy. Freedom. Remember that idea? Some people like .XYZ. Some don’t. My job as Director of Operations at Epik doesn’t require me to tell people they ought to buy .XYZ domains, and I haven’t told anybody to buy them. But we ALLOW customers who want to buy .XYZ domains at Epik to do so. And to some degree we participate in registry promotions in order to offer competitive pricing.
This is no different from a grocery store selling “Easy Cheese” even if the store management prefers cheese that doesn’t come in an aerosol can. Despite personal taste and viewpoints on health, the store keeps in stock whatever customers like to buy.
Guys, it’s not a moral outrage if we allow people to buy a TLD.
Joseph – At some point the reputable registrars will stop promoting the registries that continue to bring problems and “disruption to business”. At one point in time you correctly stated the dishonest tactics of .XYZ and now you are vigorously defending them, all while you now sell their product…..Joseph its times like these that you (EPIK) can lead or follow, but at some point reputable registrars will drop dishonest extensions like a hot potato…Lead or follow?
@Aaron Strong,
When the mob is wrong, then I refuse to “Lead or Follow” the mob.
“now you are vigorously defending them”
I always defend people against angry mobs. Over the years, I’ve defended as well as criticized .XYZ, defended as well as criticized Frank Schilling, and defended as well as criticized all sort of people / companies. Anybody who endeavors to be honest, responsible, and fair will do so.
“all while you now sell their product”
What you’re insinuating is kind of silly, really. Do you think I make a penny from .XYZ domains that customers register at Epik? For that matter, do you think any registrar is going to make a fortune selling $1 .XYZ domains that are 6-9 digits long? Give me a break!
Guys, stop for a second, take a deep breath, and have a look in the mirror. What you are insisting on is this: Registrars must STOP providing domains in any and all TLDs that have offended you or which you think are crap.
OK. Please provide me a list of all the TLDs and registries you’re not a fan of. Then we can remove all those suffixes and only sell the 10 good ones … or the 1 good one, depending on which domainer you ask. Registrars can become arbiters of public taste, refusing to sell 20% or 50% or 98% of TLDs because the public that THINKS they want to use those TLDs are too stupid for their own good. Is that what we want? Arrogant registrars that refuse to sell inventory? Or do we want freedom of choice and good prices?
Take this to the logical extreme, and you ought to go door to door, telling every store owner to stop selling this or that because it is destructive to the moral fiber of society. No more candy! Candy causes diabetes. Boycott stores that sell candy! No more paper or stationery products! Paper kills forests. Boycott stores that sell paper! No more Hollywood action movies! Movie gun violence leads to murder in our streets. Boycott movie theaters that show shoot-em-ups!
You get the idea, I hope.
I don’t think you get the point here.
This is beyond taste or who is a fan of what extension. This is not about the $1 price.
This is about a company that thinks this is the wild west and has no respect for its customers.
Registries have made a few mistakes. But no other registry has this bad track record as .xyz in claw backs, pushing domains to people that don’t want them, suspicious auctions, sponsored renewals, etc.
You are missing the point again. .XYZ is not like candy. This is not about saying that .xyz is crap and will not rank well in Google. It is about loosing your paid domain name at any time the registry sees fit or any other crazy thing they will do next.
Many registrars have chosen in the past to discontinue many extensions for various reasons. This is not something new.
I think these events from the past 3 years are more than enough for a registrar to make an informed decision.
And you taking it too personal. This is about all registrars.
Oh, and yes there are people that boycott anything they don’t like. Just like they can boycott a registry or a registrar.
I won’t boycott a registrar that offers .xyz but I would surely applaud it if the registrar chose to stop offering .xyz.
@Konstantinos,
Clawing back domains happens regularly. It’s a problem. But if people are going to demand boycott because of this, then they need to be consistent and ban a lot more than .XYZ.
Donuts clawback:
http://domainincite.com/16021-donuts-eco-debacle-affected-two-character-domains-too
.OOO clawback
http://domaingang.com/domain-news/registry-claws-back-single-letter-domains-9-months-after-registration/
5k .COM clawback:
https://www.thedomains.com/2014/10/02/as-many-as-5k-coms-taken-away-by-sealed-court-order-by-verisign-including-some-of-mine/
.LOAN clawback:
http://domaingang.com/domain-news/dot-loan-domain-clawed-back-by-the-registry-six-months-later/
.MARKETS clawback:
http://domaingang.com/domain-news/registry-claws-back-single-letter-domains-9-months-after-registration/
.TUBE clawback:
https://www.thedomains.com/2016/07/07/i-owned-17-single-letternumber-tube-domains-today-until-the-registry-took-them-back/
.PORN + .ADULT clawback
http://domainincite.com/18701-icm-claws-back-68-porn-names-it-accidentally-released
No, I’m not missing the point. The mob is overreacting. The mob has a short memory to have forgotten all the earlier stories about clawbacks. The mob has a double standard that applies to .XYZ but not to the other registries above.
When your readers call me a liar, Konstantinos, I think I get to take that personally. (Well, technically, they call me a “lier” [sic].)
People ought to think this through more carefully. The domain industry has a problem with clawbacks due to bad coordination between registries and registrars. How about we criticize the problem and allow the companies to fix it instead of vowing to burn their offices to the ground?
A much bigger problem in the domain industry is this very mob mentality. This is how domainers get scammed – through knee-jerk emotional reactions, blaming whichever lone person stands up to them or criticizes their assumptions, and over-the-top all-or-nothing opinions. This is how registries scam you guys … because they know you can be stampeded like a herd of wildebeests.
Slow down! Think it over. Somebody sold items that weren’t meant to be sold.
They sold them dirt cheap. In the awkwardness that followed, they weren’t very communicative or generous. Ideal? No. Did the world end? No. Should we burn down shopkeepers’ shops if they sell Easy Cheese? No.
You didn’t have to get all these links. We know that. And you missed a lot too.
So I guess the only thing that .xyz has done wrong in the past 3 years in this claw back.
If yes then I agree with you. But that is not the case and you know it.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. There is a moment when people say we have had enough of this abuse. I guess this is the moment with .xyz.
You keep talking about this claw back like this is the only thing that has happened with .xyz.
“The domain industry has a problem with clawbacks due to bad coordination between registries and registrars.”
No, this is bad coordination inside a registry and/or between the registry and the backend provider.
“Somebody sold items that weren’t meant to be sold.”
No. Somebody screwed people many times over 3 years, did it once more here and then went ahead and did it the next day too. Many more to come.
“Should we burn down shopkeepers’ shops if they sell Easy Cheese? No.”
Burn no. Boycott? Yes for some. No for some others.
Joseph – I second every point Konstantinos made….In addition I will add that in the real world of business there are retailers that often do not sell products from dishonest and “shady” distributors and/or manufacturers. In these cases there is no need for a customer to boycott a product or service because the retailer already made the decision on behalf of the customers best interest. (Please don’t confuse this with “FREEDOM”) ….When there is smoke, there is fire. It’s time the registrars start looking after their customers and shield them from dishonest registry extensions that have the potential to inflict business damages down the supply chain. This is not a mob mentality we are witnessing here, it is many people seeing a pattern, of dishonesty. There is no anger here on my part, just recognition of the facts.
@Konstantinos,
Maybe I’m missing something.
Last week people here were condemning a $1 price. When I speak about the $1 price, you tell me, “This is not about the $1 price.”
This week, people here are condemning a clawback of 32 domains that somebody registered at Dynadot through a registrar / registry error. When I speak about the clawback, you tell me, “So I guess the only thing that .xyz has done wrong in the past 3 years is this claw back.”
OK. So what are people furious about today? .XYZ behavior during 2014? Yes, that was dishonest, in my opinion. And it was 3 years ago. That behavior – stuffing domains into Network Solutions accounts unasked and pointing to the big reg total as a sign of market demand – ended, as far as I know, years ago. People were right to be furious in 2014 or 2015. In 2017, you can be suspicious. But calling for a boycott suddenly? Based on 2014 malfeasance?
What’s new? An ongoing price reduction to $1 – that isn’t a scam or a lie. It’s either a good thing or (if you don’t care for .XYZ) then neutral. Plenty of registries offer sales on 1st-year registrations. A permanent price reduction on renewals and transfers as well? Who would complain about that?
The clawback is nothing new in this industry. Happens all the time. Coordinating so many registrars with so many registries does result in errors, folks. This wasn’t a scam or a lie. It was a mistake on the part of Dynadot / .XYZ. The customer wasn’t cheated. At worst, he was inconvenienced and disappointed, getting a refund instead of a steal.
Over the years selling domains at venues like Sedo and Afternic, once or twice I’ve had a buyer purchase a domain through “Buy Now” only to discover that the domain is no longer mine – just left over from an outdated listing. In these cases, since I’m unable to deliver the domain, the buyer gets a refund. I’m sure he’s similarly inconvenienced and disappointed. In fact, he’d have spent much more than this .XYZ customer, who paid only $2 apiece for 32 domains for a total of $64. While I regret mistakes like these as a seller, I know that everybody is fallible.
Given my own experience of selling a domain in error, I think it’s only fair to cut registrars / registries some slack when they too sell a domain in error. We can all opine about the best way to make amends for such a mistake. But it’s deeply wrong to characterize this as a scam.
Dynadot is just as much to blame for this as .XYZ, after all. Yet nobody here is blacklisting Dynadot.
It’s fine by me if consumers mistrust .XYZ. The blemishes on that reputation have been well earned. But if we’re going to criticize .XYZ in 2017, then let’s criticize what they actually do in 2017 – not what they did 3 years ago. And let’s criticize fairly.
Some consumers do (rightly or wrongly) like .XYZ domains. Will you people be banishing them and ostracizing their websites too? Or just punishing any supplier who provides them with a domain or hosts their site?
MIT has a site at Engine.xyz, for instance. Suppose the students at MIT visit Epik (the company I work for) and want to buy an .XYZ domain. Should I tell them, “Sorry, we refuse to sell .XYZ to you”? Alright. When they ask why, what shall I tell them:
(A) Some domainers were angry about .XYZ marketing tactics from 2014. Therefore we cannot sell you an .XYZ domain for $2 today.
(B) We consider .XYZ immoral. You are consorting with liars and scammers. Get thee hence, child of Beelzebub!
Or we could just let them register a domain. Like normal. That’d be sane.
Most people were not condemning the $1 price (that is not great) but rather the ridiculous sales pitch by Frank.
It is not about just one thing. It is about everything. Many big and smaller things all added together. People were saying to boycott .xyz since 2014. Now more and more people say it every day. Even people that liked .xyz domains.
And this week it is not just one guy that was “inconvenienced”. It is 3+ guys and today someone with grid.xyz and who knows how many more we don’t know…
Why do people need to be angry about today only? Last year .xyz was sponsoring renewals to certain registrars. Was that bad or is it ok because it was last year?
How do we even now this new $1 price is permanent? Based on the .xyz track record people should believe the opposite.
Dynadot had nothing to do with this claw back. The API that goes out to all registrars had all these domains as available to register. This was true for ALL registrars.
It was .xyz and/or Centralnic that f*cked up. This was NOT Dynadot’s fault.
Again you seem to focus on this claw back like .xyz is a new registry that came out yesterday. People have had enough of this .xyz BS.
“It’s fine by me if consumers mistrust .XYZ. The blemishes on that reputation have been well earned.”
Exactly. And the reputation has not improved by one bit since 2014. It gets worse year after year.
We people can’t do anything but boycott what we see fit. Yes, I might not visit a .xyz website just because more of them are scam and malware websites.
Actually most registrars should have banned .xyz in 2014. Or in 2015. Or in 2016. If this was done then we wouldn’t be having this conversation today.
It might not even be your decision to boycott .xyz (or it could be very difficult to do) but defending .xyz doesn’t seem right.
They f*cked up and kept silent. Business as usual.
And it only a matter of time that one of your customers will the usual .xyz treatment.
What it really is: GREED. Ripping their own customers. Ever been in retail? You make a mistake pricing an item and you still honor it. Let me run this by you all. It has happened to me many times in retail. Here’s my advice: “Let your customer have the good deal, he will go out and tell many many other folks about what a bargain he found in your shop. Others will flood in looking for them also.” At times we would actually deliberately price something really really low, knowing the great word of mouth it gets you. Now isn’t that better than all the negative publicity these guys are getting now? My advice to XYZ and all the others: Stop acting like greedy stupid armatures, it gets you nowhere fast. Imagine the great publicity you would have gotten, quite a favorable buzz if you played honestly.
Exactly. Everybody would be looking for .xyz domains to buy.
Yes, that’s what I would have preferred to see from any company. Not all companies are so generous or PR-savvy, though.
Unfortunately, the reaction from many readers here has been turned up to 11 on the amplifier. When they’re foaming at the mouth already, it’s not possible to reserve any anger for worse things. A WORSE response from .XYZ would have been to claw back the domains with no explanation given at all AND no refund, forcing the customer to chase them. That didn’t happen. This is just the usual situation of clawbacks with refunds, which we see most of the time from most companies in most industries.
It’s not genocide. It’s a stubbed toe.
Saying “registered in error” is no explanation. No, they were registered fine. They were somehow released in error and we will never know how and why and how, and how that will not happen again. Like every time someone tries to register an available .xyz domain… This was not a single domain or one type of domains. There were tens of them, both NNN and keywords and who knows how many more.
Also not giving would not be an option as probably the registrar would provide the refund and the registrar would be after the registry.
xyz not trust worthy ,period
Konstantinos,
I have a great business opportunity for you! I will just be vague here so I don’t spill the beans on our new business plan.
Let’s start our own registry! To the right of the Dot, we’ll use the 3 least desirable letters in the alphabet, you know, the ones that spell the least amount of words and are “used” the least. This will give us a fighting chance, but then we’ll need some hoopla and whistles to pitch the registries so they will toot our horn. We can give the domains away to start since people wouldn’t buy them, but come renewal, that’s where we’ll rake in the dough. Our work isnt done until we sell every possible domain so any worthless domains, we’ll sell for $1 and any premium domains, we’ll sell for an arm and leg so no domain investor has a chance to market the domain. After all, this is our extension, we don’t want anyone making money on it, but us, not even end users.
I am so excited about this opportunity, I think we should definitely register the .com of our domain extension though just incase our idea doesn’t take off, we’ll at least have something to fall back on? I need to ensure you have a good track record of selling people nothing and a history of pushing the envelope beyond it’s limits.
Let’s roll the dice shall we? We’ll show the Domain King who’s boss!
I won’t partner with you on this unless the Domain King is on board with us! Haha
Very disappointed to see and read the amount of energy Joseph Peterson (and by extension therefore Epik) is putting in as an inadvertent apologist and soft dampener on this. So they were naughty a few years ago… So they are doing what other companies are doing.. So they falsely padded numbers to create false suitability for investors… So they create false news headlines about sticking up to China.. So they seized back domains at the same time of pushing out ridiculous marketing and monetization schemes… So they can’t tell the truth and have a long history of treating their customers like sheepish idiots and marks…
In your quest to impress with articulations, your counter testimony and corporate fence balance starts to inherit the smell of the perpetrators. Your vision is grossly off on this one. I’d rather see innovation and new ideas than this level of self-interested part protectionism for the option to financially benefit to avoid missing out. Or to avoid looking bad while doing it. Especially when unequivocally – this is hurting the domain industry, their actions have not been supportive of domain investors, and their goal has been to take as much while giving as little as possible with zero sense of integrity or long term sustainability.
Either way, this is a tremendous waste of writing talent, and is devoid of leadership and accountability as the tale is safely narrated to roll over the soft edges for digestion. As an industry we put people like Frank in the position to raise prices by 3000% or more through our reliable benefit of the doubt… As an industry we give passes to people like Negari for horrific ethics in our marketplaces. As an industry, we choose to use registrars that together cannot have a single common sense view before the fact when it comes to ICANN regulation, consumer protection, or any real foresight at all on basic market mechanics – until it is too late.
So wake up people! Don’t let armchair counter editorial strategists operating as partial apologists on the guise of free market opportunities cloud common sense here. They have already proven they are behind the curve, they are near 100% passively reactive by nature, and will be grossly enslaved to the harmful elements of new GTLD’s being rolled out with no sensible uniformity or care beyond ICANN bloating itself.
You are absolutely right. Nevertheless Epik is one of my favorite registrars and Joseph a great guy and I am happy to know him.
@Frank Carson,
The angry mob always hates any individual that doesn’t pick up a torch and a pitchfork to join them.
Angry mobs aren’t especially self-aware either! Talk about wasted energy, yet you’ve written a 4-paragraph diatribe denouncing me as a “self-interested” protectionist, “devoid of leadership and accountability”, an “armchair counter editorial strategist”, a “partial apologist” and a “free market opportunist”, who is not only “behind the curve” and “100% passively reactive by nature” but “grossly enslaved” to nTLDs.
Wow! You guys have truly lost touch with reality.
Back when I was telling everybody to be wary of Chinese bubbles and pump-and-dump schemes here on OnlineDomain, the angry mob hated me then too. In fact, as Konstantinos will remember, you guys wanted to “slit [my] throat like a pig”.
My crime in this case? Advocating for sobriety and a sense of perspective. Like it or not, fellas, 2 things are going to remain true:
(1) Registrars are going to continue selling TLDs that some consumers like to buy. That includes .XYZ.
(2) In any industry, when a customer is able to purchase a product through a glitch, some companies will claw back the item and refund the customer. Is that ideal? No, it’s a problem. But it ISN’T a catastrophe. And it ISN’T a scam. It’s just a frustrating error.
In the domain industry, such clawbacks are common to numerous registries and TLDs. Singling out 1 TLD and demanding that registrars all over the world cease to sell it because of a customer refund incident is a SEVERE overreaction.
If you domainers cannot tell the difference between big controversies (like the Uniregistry price hike) and tiny controversies (like a refund glitch), then you’ll just wander around in the woods hyperventilating and never find the trail.
Tucows stopped selling some of Uniregistry’s extensions and a couple of others have stopped selling .xyz for other reasons.
It is not like this is something that is not being done.
I still don’t understand how you try to make this all about yesterday’s claw back yet you have said all that the .xyz registry has done. There comes a time where people can’t take it no more and the slightest hiccup will trigger a mass reaction. And it is not like this is the first time people react to the .xyz registry. And they will continue to do it after each f*ckup big or small as things keep pilling up.
I had some troubles over the years with a registrar. I decided to leave after the last straw that if I mention it it would seem insignificant. But the support response was below par and that was it.
@Konstantinos,
Why am I writing about the clawback? Look up! This is your article about the clawback. That’s why.
Your readers have turned into an angry mob that’s howling for blood! Whose blood? .XYZ registry. Any registrars that dare to sell .XYZ. And any individual (like myself) with enough guts and independence to tell them they’re overreacting.
Yes, registrars can choose not to sell a TLD if they like. At Epik, we don’t sell .PORN, as I recall, because of our CEO’s religious beliefs. It’s not as if we’re all about profit.
As you know, I was very vocal in condemning the Uniregistry TLD price hikes. Probably nobody criticized them more widely than I did. On pretty much every blog, I went after them doggedly. Epik raised prices right away on those TLDs to prevent customers buying at the old rate and being surprised later.
Why was Uniregistry such a scandal? Because prices went drastically UP. Obviously that’s TERRIBLE for customers – unambiguously bad for all of them.
But why on earth should we now want to ban .XYZ? What have they done lately that has caused a scandal?
1. They REDUCED prices on a subset of domains. Permanently. Not a bad thing at all.
2. They ran an over-the-top marketing campaign to promote the new 1.111B category. OK. I’m a skeptic. You can all be skeptical too. Last time I checked, we’re not locking up domainers whose sales pitches are too optimistic.
3. Dynadot mistakenly let a customer register some .XYZ domains that weren’t meant to be for sale. So the customer lost the domains and got a refund. Mistakes like this happen from time to time throughout the domain industry AND throughout other industries on planet earth.
So far, I see ZERO justification for banning .XYZ from any registrar. Unlike the Uniregistry scandal, there is NOTHING here is that is unambiguously bad and applies to all customers. Some people like .XYZ. They buy it, and they use it. Personally I’m not a huge fan. But I’m also not a DICTATOR. So I’m not going to ban .XYZ from Epik just because they lowered their prices and Dynadot screwed up by selling the wrong .XYZ domains.
Yes, I’m well aware of their past scandals. To the extent that domainers remember those scandals, they have me to thank for talking about those scandals repeatedly for years. Not just me. But I was relentless to such an extent that the angry mob over at DomainIncite accused me of being a Verisign shill! (God, am I sick of dumb domainers slinging accusations!)
I’ve never liked .XYZ much as a TLD. But it isn’t the worst in terms of intrinsic value. .PW and .OOO are much crappier. Let’s let the people who want to buy it buy it. If you think they’re wrong, fine. People have a right to be wrong.
There’s just no justification for boycotting .XYZ, Konstantinos.
What your readers can’t seem to understand here is pretty simple. I’m not defending .XYZ so much as I’m criticizing THEIR over-the-top reaction. Put it this way: If there’s a fly in my soup, then I will criticize the chef. But if the restaurant erupts into chaos and starts putting a noose around the chef’s neck, then I’m going to criticize my fellow diners instead.
This article is about the claw back. People will complain here for the past 3 years. They are not going to dig my old articles to do it. Especially since all the action is here.
There is no angry mob. Most of what I have heard towards the .xyz registry is justifiable. Towards you not so much but you got in the middle.
“Lately” is such a lame excuse. Lately is 3 years for some people. Lately is through a company’s life cycle for others.
1. I will say it once more. I would be very concerned mentioning .xyz and “Permanently” together.
2. I don’t give a rat’s ass about their marketing but I can say that Frank’s pitch (or .XYZ’s pitch) was stupid. That is when it is plain marketing and not account stuffing.
3. Dynadot had nothing to do with this. Period. I am 100% sure that Epik was showing the same domains as available too. You keep saying Dynadot screwed up. This is not true. Why are you saying that?
What applies to all customers is that more than enough people have been screwed over the past 3 years. Many more will follow.
You can do what you see fit at Epik but people can be angry as well with .xyz.
I too have been accused to be both pro New gTLDs and against them. Nothing new. It depends on what sentence you read and make up your mind from that sentence alone.
Here is your analogy: I found an arm in my soup and was rather calm because I was shocked. I then found a brick and was slightly angry. I then found a fly and kicked the shit out of the chef.
People don’t react on a linear function.
The truth is that .XYZ should have been boycotted from everybody and ICANN should have taken measures in 2014. We wouldn’t be having this conversation now.
So let’s leave anyone that wants to boycott, boycott and move on.
@Konstantinos,
If people want to boycott .XYZ, that’s fine by me. They’re free to criticize the TLD and the registry’s behavior. But if people want to boycott a REGISTRAR simply because it allows other customers to buy .XYZ, that is definitely NOT fine. It’s foolish, unjust, and coercive. I’m not going to stand by and watch this lynch mob forming in your comments section. And when they attack my integrity for telling them they’re wrong, then I’ll push back on that too.
I have never asked anybody to ignore .XYZ’s past actions. That’s part of their reputation, and consumers ought to be aware of that history. However, any fair-minded sensible person ought to judge an action on its own terms.
If there’s a fly in your soup today, you should NOT react as though the chef had just killed a man. If the chef DID kill a man 3 years ago, then judge him for THAT murder. Meanwhile, judge the fly in your soup as a fly in your soup.
By all means, judge the .XYZ registry harshly for its scammy misbehavior during 2014. Now, if there’s a minor issue involving a refund in 2017, judge that for what it is – a minor issue involving a refund, no different from other clawbacks by other registries involved with other TLDs.
You don’t have to forget about the major problems with .XYZ from the past (like registrar stuffing). On the contrary, I’d suggest remembering that pattern of misbehavior so that all consumers can be cautious about interpreting .XYZ registration volume here on out. But once people begin reacting to minor day-to-day issues or non-issues in 2017 as though they are catastrophes or scams, then your readers lost touch with reality.
Ideally, your readers would be able to judge X in terms of X, judge Y in terms of Y, and judge Z in terms of Z. Otherwise, people lose the ability to see and think clearly.
Nobody is boycotting a registrar. Simply because almost all registrars offer .xyz. If 90% didn’t offer .xyz then they could easily do it.
But they can congratulate the ones that will take some action.
Joseph,
You keep ignoring the main concern I have here which is that Negari has a documented history of scamming people. Most people that do business with him probably don’t know this, but you do and you aren’t doing anything about it. Others jump at the opportunity to do business with a known scammer and don’t care if they do business with a scammer.
THIS above all other problems is what I find most shocking!
If Adam Dicker started a domain extension, would you jump at the opportunity to work with him to pitch it to your customers? The ONLY difference is Adam Dicker started scamming people in the domain industry whereas Negari scammed people in a the mortgage industry, but scamming people is scamming people, it’s the same!
Now he obviously has his eyes set on the domain industry and already has shown that he has no morals and will do almost anything to make money from unsuspecting customers.
@Reuben,
What is the scam here? Be specific.
Daniel Negari started the company, hired his mom, and then sold the company to his mom, but he scammed people:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/beverly-hills-mint-berta-negari-daniel-negari/beverly-hills-california-90211/beverly-hills-mint-berta-negari-daniel-negari-berta-negari-and-daniel-negari-beverly-hi-446350
Sued for False Advertising:
http://domainincite.com/18023-verisign-sues-xyz-and-negari-for-false-advertising
.XYZ is Dead:
https://onlinedomain.com/2014/06/04/domain-extensions/new-gtlds/xyz-is-dead-disaster-daniel-negari-exposed-xyz-down-to-34th-place-where-is-deals-xyz/
.XYZ owns 10 new gtlds, you really think they are going to weather the storm?
https://www.thedomains.com/2017/05/03/daniel-negari-xyz-acquires-10th-new-gtld-storage/
@Reuben,
Let me get this straight. So the reason you want registrars to cease selling .XYZ in 2017 is … an allegation that the registry CEO ripped somebody off in a home mortgage back in 2009?
Even being Daniel Negari’s biggest critic for the past 3 years, I don’t see how that would make any sense.
No, the past 3 years are more than enough. But I know what you are say. “It makes no sense to ban .xyz for the claw back.” But I just said 3 years… Oh nevermind…
@Konstantinos,
Imagine you and I are sitting down to dinner with a 3rd domainer. Let’s suppose this third fellow happens to be a fan of .XYZ. He has a bunch of .XYZ domains in his portfolio. He likes them, and he wants to continue owning them in order to sell them.
Neither of us has ever been a big fan of .XYZ, to put it mildly. Yet we’ve both met domainers who like the TLD and own a bunch of .XYZ domains. They’re good guys.
Now we’re all eating dinner together. You like Epik. I work at Epik. This third domainer wants to keep his domains at Epik.
Alright, explain to him why I must REFUSE to serve him the dish he orders – when that dish happens to by .XYZ. Explain to him why the company I work for ought to refuse to let him keep a big part of his portfolio with us. Explain to him how it’s a good thing that we’re telling him his inventory isn’t welcome.
Because sooner or later he is going to get the same treatment as hundreds or thousands of other people before him. Or worse. If you think all is going to be fine with .xyz from now on then fine. Keep them.
@Konstantinos,
What treatment have “hundreds or thousands of other people” gotten? Honestly, I don’t know what you’re referring to.
Ok.
If I molested a child 3 years ago, I would still be a child molester.
If I murdered someone 3 years ago, I would still be a murderer.
If I cheated on my wife 3 years ago, I would still be a cheater.
And FINALLY, if I scammed people in any industry, I would still be scammer, just like Adam Dicker.
Sadly you seem to have more sympathy for the suspect rather than the victims for obvious reasons.
Joseph, your a smart guy, but I really don’t know what part of this you don’t understand! A scammer is a scammer. No one wants to work with the Enron CEO, Bernie Madoff, Adam Dicker, or any other scammer, but your happy too! And when it comes to scammers, one person speaks for 1000!
Daniel Negari is and always will be a scammer so all the drama he has brought on himself are clear warning signs of this!
To think he didn’t scam you or anyone you know, is self centered thinking, you have customers you have to care for unlike Godaddy who could give a rats ass about their customers or reputation which is why they bought NoDaddy.com and squashed it.
Is Epik a follower or a leader? You keep saying none of this makes any sense, but we are talking about .XYZ, we’re not talking about all new gtlds because clearly .xyz has a reputation much like it’s owner to scam, spam, and do whatever you can to make money off gullible naive people.
If you want to do business with another Adam Dicker, go ahead, but don’t be upset when he scams your customers!
@Reuben,
Before taking this test, you guys need to do your homework! Was nobody here paying attention to this industry AT ALL since 2014? Are you guys all fresh off the boat?
It’s embarrassing to see how clueless everybody is when they talk about me “defending .XYZ” or lecture me about how Daniel Negari is a scammer – as if I were his best friend. The reason the domain community mistrusts .XYZ and Negari is in large part owing to my own efforts. For years, I wrote all over the internet about .XYZ scandals, preventing my colleagues from sweeping the 2014 scam under the rug.
Although you guys seem oblivious to this history, your opinions today are borrowed indirectly from people like me who spoke out at a time when most people wanted to let Negari off the hook or even PRAISE him as a marketing genius. The irony is, back then I was ALSO told to shut up and accused of having sinister motives. The 1 constant in the domain industry is that the majority of domainers always get things wrong.
Google “Joseph Peterson” + “Daniel Negari”. On page 1, you’ll see articles like these:
http://www.ricksblog.com/2014/06/interview-daniel-negari-addressing-inflated-xyz-registrations/#.WTnX4BPytAY
This was ground zero when the scandal first emerged. I was BY FAR the loudest voice online condemning it:
“He predicted massive registrations. And he seems to have cheated his customers in order to create the illusion of success.”
Even before the registrar stuffing at Network Solutions:
https://www.thedomains.com/2014/06/02/daniel-negari-predicts-1-million-xyz-registrations-in-first-year-its-my-gift-to-the-world/
Or here:
http://domainincite.com/18023-verisign-sues-xyz-and-negari-for-false-advertising
The author, Kevin Murphy, dismissed Verisign’s lawsuit as based on “trivial grounds”. I disagreed.
Quote: “Negari’s ongoing use of the inflated .XYZ registration numbers as a sales pitch to consumers is misleading and (I would insist) grotesquely unethical.”
http://domainnamewire.com/2014/06/13/dot-xyz-marketing/
Back then, people were saying: “Brilliant marketing by Nigari” [sic]
But I said: “Where in the marketing textbook does it say … Base your sales pitch on a bald-faced lie?”
My own editor at DomainNameWire took a fairly neutral position, but I went after .XYZ at every single opportunity:
http://domainnamewire.com/2015/06/02/one-year-xyz-domain-names/
“Having seen many domainer newbies rush out to give Negari’s company money based on the illusion he’s fostered partly at their expense, I’m not prepared to excuse the man’s (shall we say) pliant interpretation of reality.”
I could cite dozens of examples where I’ve called out Negari’s duplicity during that time period. More than any of the readers here did – that’s for damn sure. My opinion of his character hasn’t changed. And I’ve never exonerated the registry from its 2014 scams.
But that is still no reason to discontinue selling .XYZ to custsomers who want to buy it.
Particularly since nobody has yet pointed to any .XYZ scam in 2017.
So if .xyz scams someone in 2017 you will stop selling .xyz and then on January 1st 2018 you will start again? Just because Epik and other registrars didn’t do the right thing in 2014 it doesn’t mean they can’t fix it now. Maybe then we can wait for the next scam and see what happens…
@Konstantinos,
I don’t agree that .XYZ ought to be banned from registrars. Frankly, I don’t see how you can justify that conclusion.
When the registry engages in false advertising, as it did in 2014, then the remedy is to have a public outcry and hold them accountable, ensuring that this scandal sticks to their reputation in the future. That’s what I did. That’s what I’d do again.
Yes, a lawsuit by Verisign was part of the answer, though nobody else was willing to support this idea at the time. As I recall, I was the only professional in this industry publicly rooting for that lawsuit to succeed. Everybody else, from Kevin Murphy to Andrew Allemann, wrote about that lawsuit as if .XYZ were David fighting the Verisign Goliath. People other than me were cheering for .XYZ.
It would not have been appropriate to stop selling .XYZ even then. The problem was the false advertising – not the domains that people could register. Intrinsically, the .XYZ domains are fine. Not my favorite. But the domain itself isn’t a scam. And the pricing isn’t a scam either. Customers have seen their prices remain low. So why ban the TLD?
Likewise, with the registrar stuffing. The problem was Network Solutions putting unwanted domains in customer accounts without their express permission. That misbehavior ought to be condemned. And it was. But other registrars have NOT stuffed their customer’s accounts with unwanted .XYZ domains. Why on earth should Dynadot or Epik or GoDaddy stop selling .XYZ domains merely because Network Solutions was misbehaving with .XYZ domains?
Banning the TLD makes absolutely no sense to me. Punishing false advertising does. Punishing registrar stuffing does. But the TLD itself isn’t the problem. People can buy it and use it responsibly, and they won’t be exposed to any scam.
No comment. I am done with this.
@Konstantinos,
It’s not a big deal. The only reason I keep coming back is that some of your readers continually attack my integrity. Their lazy and irresponsible behavior demands an answer.
If that’s the way your audience is going to behave, Konstantinos, then I may have to stop participating in discussions here. You’re not to blame. Still, apart from you yourself, the comments section on your blog is a very inhospitable place.
Right now, if I deviate from the herd at all, your readers call me dishonest. This mentality is growing on your comments section like a fungus. I hate to see that happen to a good blog. Hopefully there’s some sort of spray we can use to disinfect the place.
All blogs and forums are like this from time to time. Nothing new. 1 or 2 people may have overdone it.
“Hopefully there’s some sort of spray we can use to disinfect the place.”
Only allow comments from domain investors who have sold a domain for more than US$10k. That should weed the garden out nicely.
Nothing about OnlineDomain.com or the readers and commenters here is part of the herd mentality. This blog is so against the grain, it makes most other blogs look like complete shill jobs.
If your looking for the herd mentality, there’s plenty of that out there especially on Namepros, but what sets this blog apart is Konstantinos is not afraid to tell the truth which will always bring about controversy and anyone that has anything to do with tlds that are only used for spam & scams will certainly be ridiculed.
Joseph, you really shouldn’t be putting out XYZ’s fires, especially since they fail to even attempt to put out their own fires. The extension is the #1 extension for scamming and spamming, clearly they have found their niche in the industry which will keep them alive until the ponzi scheme is over. And there’s no doubt this extension is run just like a ponzi scheme having to attract more investors to keep the extension going because of the attrition ton’s of others leaving the worthless domains.
@Reuben,
I will put out any fire that hoodlums light in any garbage can anywhere.
LMFAO.xyz Fell off off chair, ROFL.xyz
@Konstantinos,
What justification is there for taking any action whatsoever? I see none.
OK. Search for .xyz at the top right.
@Konstantinos,
During and after the 2014 registrar stuffing scandal, we publicly criticized that behavior by .XYZ and Network Solutions.
During and after Daniel Negari’s sales pitch based on high registration volume, we publicly criticized that bogus sales pitch as false advertising.
During and after .XYZ’s penny registration, we pointed out that this was probably, in part, a ruse to buttress falling domain totals and prevent .TOP from overtaking .XYZ in the #1 position by volume.
We took appropriate action. We brushed nothing under the rug. We’ve forgotten and excused nothing.
But I fail to see why any registrar should stop selling .XYZ domains to customers who want to buy them. End users occasionally do use .XYZ. Some domainers are fans of .XYZ, and they already own a bunch of .XYZ domains. Why should a registrar turn its back on those customers? How on earth would that be appropriate?
Many registries have had refund / clawback issues. But unless those problems are ongoing, causing lots of customer problems at a registrar, there is no reason to drop the TLD. That would harm EVEN MORE existing customers who already own domains in that TLD.
If you really think TLDs ought to be dropped due to a clawback incident, then be consistent about it and demand the same thing 100% of the time. In your article, the person who lost these .XYZ domains says, “I only trust DONUTS”. Yet Donuts is 1 of the registries that has had similar clawback problems with scandalous articles too. If we did what you’re advocating and punished this behavior by dropping TLDs, then he wouldn’t be ALLOWED to be a fan of Donuts.
Uniregistry TLDs put customers at risk and violated the trust of existing customers with their sudden price hikes (which violated Frank Schilling’s own promises). But .XYZ has never done this. Their prices have remained stable or gone down.
We can be suspicious of .XYZ registration volume. We can distrust Negari and take the registry’s marketing with a large grain of salt. But there’s no need to ban .XYZ. It’s perfectly sufficient to remember the past problems, be skeptical about sales pitches, and allow people who want to buy domains in the TLD to do so.
You have your opinion and I have mine. So do others.
But you gave the answer yourself here: ongoing. Ongoing since 2014. Different ongoing problems.
BTW the Donuts problem was a lot different than this one. It was connected to an ICANN reserved list. Not a wrong premium list. Has it been ongoing? No.
@Konstantinos,
Yes, the 2 of us have our opinions; and we know how to discuss those differences with civility and mutual respect. Unfortunately, your readers denounce me as evil as soon as I speak up with a viewpoint different from theirs. Let’s see if we can educate your readers, eh? Or else get you a better audience.
Anybody with an ounce of intellectual honesty can tell the difference between
(A) Deliberate misbehavior like registrar stuffing and false advertising
and
(B) Accidentally selling domains for $2 that weren’t meant to be sold.
The difference is NOT that (A) happened in 2014 whereas (B) happened in 2017. The important distinction is that (A) is a SCAM whereas (B) is simply a MISTAKE. It’s a common mistake too – one that numerous companies in our industry have made and will make from time to time.
If you and your readers aren’t going to observe teh distinction between (A) Scams and (B) Mistakes, then it’s time to give up on this blog.
OK. So which of the registries that did (B) have also done (A)? And (C) and (D) and etc…
The answer is the registry that deserves a boycott since 2014. And that boycott includes 2015, 2016 and 2017 and so on.
Judge a Scam harshly.
Judge a Mistake fairly.
It doesn’t matter if the same person has done both. The reaction needs to be in proportion to the action.
Any outsider looking at your readers’ reactions here will write them off as rabid lunatics. They’re using up 200% of their righteous indignation on a fairly trivial, completely innocent mistake involving a $64 refund.
Thus, like the Boy who Cried Wolf, when there’s a real scam to complain about, outsiders will dismiss all your readers as the same nut jobs who demanded a boycott of .XYZ over a $64 registration glitch and a price reduction!
Save some of this anger, guys, for something that deserves it. Save it for genuine scams like .XYZ pulled in 2014 … or for Uniregistry price hikes … or for charlatans like Adam Dicker … or for brokers who pocket the money like Toby Clements allegedly did years ago … or for shill bidders.
This community cannot afford to react at the same fever pitch all the time. Reacting to a fly in your soup today as though it were a murder is borderline insane. Stay in touch with reality. Stay in touch with the present. It actually matters that we see things clearly and treat people fairly.
We are not on the same level.
Let’s not forget, by the way, that the guy who had his .XYZ domains clawed back … wanted to buy .XYZ domains. How on earth would it help him if you prohibit registrars from selling what he wants to buy?
And this is the result. This is the buyer of the 32 NNN.xyz:
“I am in the process of getting out of investing in domains (or at least not spend time doing it) but with that said…”
The people here being very active defending .xyz, I wonder what their motivation is? I do not understand why anyone would defend this registry.
@siru,
Sinister. Evil. Don’t trust that Joseph Peterson. He is a child of Beelzebub.
People who don’t think the way the herd thinks ought not to be trusted.
Whenever I see people defending people or companies with poor morals I always figure they have similar morals and are afraid of a public backlash when they do something. They feel like they have to defend people like themselves. Just my view on it.
@Nick,
Your view is stupid.
Just my view on it.
Daniel Negari and Berta Negari are the biggest frauds in world. This practice is just plain said. FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD. Stay away.
Soooo, I have a three letter .XYZ and I’ve had it since 2014. You saying XYZ can just yank it back at any time? I just logged into my account and hit the renew button. The domain renewal price didn’t seem any higher than normal.
And are they really worthless? a 3 letter anything is brand-able of done correctly.
They could yank a domain worth something…